Interview: Ava DuVernay | Filmmaker In 'Middle' Flouts Cinema Segregation Publicist-turned-filmmaker Ava DuVernay's Middle of Nowhere follows an inmate's wife's struggle to start over. It's part of a larger, indie film movement that aims to expand the audience for black cinema by telling stories that are "emotionally resonant [to] all."
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Indie Appeal And Black Experience Meet In 'Middle'

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Indie Appeal And Black Experience Meet In 'Middle'

Indie Appeal And Black Experience Meet In 'Middle'

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From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Robert Siegel.


And I'm Audie Cornish. Nine years ago in Los Angeles, a young movie publicist stood on a film set and had a revelation.

AVA DUVERNAY: There was something chemical that happened to me on that set, really feeling like, you know, I have a story to tell about these streets as well. And something all came together for me then and I thought maybe there could be a place for my story in this as well. And maybe I can get it done.

CORNISH: And she did. This year, Ava Duvernay took her new film "Middle of Nowhere" to the Sundance Film Festival and she took home the award for best director of an American drama. It's a first for an African-American woman. "Middle of Nowhere" begins where many prison movies trail off - visitation day. It tells the story of Ruby, the wife of an inmate. Duvernay told us she interviewed over a hundred women in Ruby's situation in order to understand the complicated sacrifices they make.

DUVERNAY: The question that the film asks is how much is too much? And at what point is kind of self-sacrifice and loyalty damaging to our own identity?

CORNISH: And you can hear that in those scenes where Ruby is sitting across the table from Derek on visiting day. We have a clip. One of the early scenes where you're first getting to understand their situation.


EMAYATZY CORINEALDI: (As Ruby) If you were telling the truth, when you said you would make this right, make it right. Five years, with good time. Say it, say it, Derek.

OMARI HARDWICK: (As Derek) Five years, with good time.

CORNISH: That pause just seems so long. So in that clip there's a lot that's unsaid. Talk about what's going on here.

DUVERNAY: It's the beginning of the film and there is this kind of bargaining going on. Ruby is a woman who had a bright future in front of her. She was married to a man that she loved and he became incarcerated, and so it's a complete reimagining of what her life will be like. And in the clip she's talking about what will be and how they will plan this out.

CORNISH: Because he's got eight years prison sentence. He's there trying to say five years with good behavior, essentially. She's saying be good in prison.

DUVERNAY: Yeah, that there's a possibility with any sentence that there could be, you know, a parole period. And he's urging her to go on with her life. And she's saying I will do this with you. You do the good time and I will wait. And that's the ground rules that they lay for the relationship that unfolds throughout the film.

CORNISH: Tell us more about what you learned in your research about how women like Ruby have to reorient their lives.

DUVERNAY: I mean, really what we wanted to do is paint a picture that brought you into the life of a woman who's made a specific choice within this world. And as I talked to these women, you know, I found that I'd had judgments about what kind of woman this would be. This couldn't be a bright, smart, articulate woman. You know, this couldn't be someone who'd had goals for herself for more than waiting for a man behind bars. And all of that's just not true. There are women - and there are millions and millions and millions of them - women in waiting, women in this kind of middle place and they're disregarded, they're invisible to us. So the goal's really just to kind of bring that out in the open and explore all the different relationships that these women are experiencing.

CORNISH: A few years into her husband's prison sentence, Ruby acquires an admirer, a bus driver named Brian. And there are some sort of complications as they first start their relationship. But they have a very sweet one. Here's a clip of it.


DAVID OYELOWO: (As Brian) Want to go to a movie this weekend? And don't tell me you're working.

CORINEALDI: (As Ruby) I don't know if you like the same kind of movies I like.

OYELOWO: (As Brian) All right. What kind of movies you like?

CORINEALDI: (As Ruby) Indie ones. Foreign ones.

OYELOWO: (As Brian) Movies that a brother's got to read?

CORINEALDI: (As Ruby) Yes. No.

OYELOWO: (As Brian) Oh, all right. I can swing with subtitles.

CORNISH: A scene from the movie "Middle of Nowhere." Ava Duvernay, that scene sort of alludes to another side of your work, which is about kind of opening the world of indie films to black filmmakers and black audiences. I mean, these characters joke about these kinds of movies, these indie movies not even playing on their side of town.

DUVERNAY: Yeah, no, I mean it's about opening up indie films to black audiences and black filmmakers. But also opening up black independent films to all audiences. I mean, there is really a kind of cinema segregation that happens when you say black film. What do you think about? Films for black people that will only be seen by black people. And my films are open and I think emotionally resonant with all. There's definitely this space that's happening right now, this black independent new wave that's happening with filmmakers that are telling very complex, nuanced contemporary stories about black American life. And we just invite everyone to take a look.

CORNISH: You mention this new wave of black cinema. Talk about what's happening. How many films are you talking about and kind of what do you think is propelling the moment?

DUVERNAY: It's such an exciting time right now. You know, there are about, you know, 35 to 42 black filmmakers in their late-20s, 30s and early 40s who've made their first or second film in the last five years. That's a good handful of people really looking at complex images of contemporary black life. So, you know, in the studio system we get a lot of comedies and we get a lot of historical dramas. But not a lot of black folk living in 2012, living, breathing, loving, losing, that kind of thing, are the stories that this cadre of filmmakers are focused on. And I'm really proud to stand with them and be a part of it.

CORNISH: Now, before you were a filmmaker you were actually a film publicist, right? And what kind of movies did you market and how did you make the transition to directing?

DUVERNAY: Yeah, yeah, you know, I was always a film lover. And my dad always said do something that you love. And so I never thought I could ever make a film, so I decided to go into film publicity so I could be close to film. And learned a lot working on big studio pictures. I had an agency, The Duvernay Agency, I started when I was 27. And it was quite successful. I worked on all kinds of things - "Dream Girls," "Collateral," "Shark Tale," "Invictus," you know, my film school was being a publicist on these sets. So I saw all kinds of people making all kinds of films. And so I took a little bit from all of it and cobbled together a film school experience for myself, and then proceeded to try to do my own thing.

CORNISH: Does it give you an edge now as you are kind of getting your film out there? I mean, it's a well-made film, but I have to wonder if your talent in publicity and marketing are really serving you well here?

DUVERNAY: You know, I think of them both as different, with different binds. If I would have had my marketing hat on while I was making the film, I probably wouldn't cast, you know, our lovely unknown lead, Emayatzy Corinealdi. Probably would have cast, you know, somebody I could put on the poster and everyone would know. So luckily for me, for some reason, I have this split personality when it comes to filmmaking and film marketing my own thing. And at this point, I've been able to kind of balance the two and have one serve the other in lots of kind of weird ways.

CORNISH: You said something earlier that I wanted to follow up on. You said with films there can be a kind of segregation. Is that the same with kind of Indiewood as it is with Hollywood?

DUVERNAY: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean when I talk about a cinema segregation, I really am speaking of audience, you know, and the question of what does it take for someone who's not black to be interested in a black film? Do I have to strip away and say, oh, it's not black, it's just a universal film. But it's, you know, it's made by a black woman about a black woman. And I stand by that. And yet, within the heart of that black woman beats the heart of all of us. I just invite other people to open their minds to it, both black and white. Let's redefine what we think of when we say black film and understand that it's a film about black people, but everyone's invited.

CORNISH: Writer, director Ava Duvernay. Her new film "Middle of Nowhere" opens in theaters today. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

DUVERNAY: Audie, thank you for having me.



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