Weekly Wrap: "Death And Taxes." Guest host Sarah McCammon (@sarahmccammon) talks with NPR newscaster Korva Coleman (@KorvaColemanNPR) and NPR Weekend Edition Sunday host Lulu Garcia-Navarro (@lourdesgnavarro) about the week that was: the status of the tax plan turned healthcare bill in Congress, sexual assault accusations against U.S. Senate candidate Roy Moore and Senator Al Franken, a shooting in California, and the butterball turkey hotline. They also call a listener in Australia, and it's all capped off by the best things that happened to listeners all week. Sam will be back next week for a special Thanksgiving edition of the show, which we'll release on Thursday morning. As always, you can reach the show at samsanders@npr.org or @NPRItsBeenAMin. Tweet at Sam @samsanders and producers Brent Baughman @brentbaughman and Anjuli Sastry @AnjuliSastry.
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Weekly Wrap: "Death And Taxes."

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Weekly Wrap: "Death And Taxes."

Weekly Wrap: "Death And Taxes."

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JOSHUA JOHNSON, BYLINE: Where can we debate today's big issues without getting attacked for speaking our minds? 1A provides a safe, smart place for tough conversations every weekday. And the Friday News Roundup breaks down the week's top stories. I'm Joshua Johnson. Check out the 1A podcast on the NPR One app or wherever you listen to podcasts.

EBBEN: Hi, this is Ebben (ph).

ARDEN: And Arden (ph).

EBBEN: Sarah is our mom.

ARDEN: Sarah is our mom.

EBBEN: This week on the show, NPR newscaster Korva Coleman.

ARDEN: And the host of NPR's Weekend Edition Sunday, Lulu Garcia-Navarro.

EBBEN: OK. Let's start the show.

ARDEN: OK. Let's start the show.


LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, BYLINE: Oh, my god. I love that so much.


This is NPR. I'm Sarah McCammon. IT'S BEEN A MINUTE. Sam Sanders is on vacation. And if Sam gets a break, Aunt Betty gets a break, too. So thank you, McCammon boys, for filling in. I'm excited to be here in Sam's place. These days, I'm a reporter for NPR covering the southeast. And in a past life, I was a campaign reporter. That's how I know Sam so well. Each week, as you know, we begin with a different song. And so I'll explain this one in a second. But first, as my kids said, today in the studio with me, NPR newscaster Korva Coleman. Hey, Korva.


MCCAMMON: And Lulu Garcia-Navarro, host of NPR's Weekend Edition Sunday. Hi, Lulu.


MCCAMMON: So this song - it's called, "I'll Name The Dog..."


MCCAMMON: ...By Blake Shelton.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Ah. Blake Shelton.

COLEMAN: Here it comes. All right.


BLAKE SHELTON: (Singing) Girl, it's high time I tell you no more messing around. Time to lay these cards on the table and just throw it on out.

MCCAMMON: As you may have heard, he was named the sexiest man alive by People magazine this week. And the Internet had a lot of feelings about it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: A lot of feelings about it. Yes, they did.


COLEMAN: I have a feeling about it.

MCCAMMON: We will talk about that. But first, I just want to say, I grew up listening to country music. You know, I grew up in Kansas City. And I still listen to country. But I couldn't sleep the other night, and I realized that I couldn't name a single Blake Shelton song. So it was, like, 2 a.m., and I'm Googling.


MCCAMMON: And this is the song I found, which - it's basically about getting married.


SHELTON: (Singing) Sing you a song out there with the crickets and the frogs. You name the babies, and I'll name the dogs.

MCCAMMON: Did you get that?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: OK. Yeah. You name the babies and I name the dogs.

MCCAMMON: Interesting division of labor.


COLEMAN: I mean, it's just kind of - you know, I'm still with Idris Elba anyway. But, you know, for me...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh well, always, always with Idris Elba.

MCCAMMON: Seconded. If you guys were alive this week on the internet, you know that there were a lot of hot takes and more hot takes and some long comment sections about Blake Shelton being the sexiest man alive. For example, I saw him described in one - by one commenter on Facebook as the sexiest divorced dad at the barbecue. And the other question I had about this, though, is, you know, there's been a lot of dissection of Blake Shelton's appearance this week. And, you know, it occurs to me if it were the sexiest woman alive, and you had like the basic white woman equivalent of Blake Shelton - I don't know who that would be, but there's probably like 500 different options we could think of - you know, would it feel the same way? Like if we were three guys we're talking about a woman's appearance, it would feel really different, wouldn't it?

COLEMAN: I think we're so into appearance and lookism that it almost - like, we don't even think to ask that question. If we're talking about People magazine's sexiest man in the world, we're automatically talking about something that has already been normalized about women. And now we're transferring it to men. And I think that's a great question. Yeah, we would be totally talking about where did she rank on a scale of 1 to 10. We're doing the same thing here.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. I'm with Korva on this one. We've been talking this way about women for a long time.

MCCAMMON: So the tables - I think they're turning in a lot of ways...


MCCAMMON: ...Lately. All right. We are here to discuss what happened this week. A tax plan became a health plan? What? Another shooting - feels like we say that every week.


MCCAMMON: The Senate race in Alabama and so much more. First, let's start. We're going to describe the week in three words. Korva, you first.

COLEMAN: My three words are: yet another tragedy. In the week of November 12, we have had the Rancho Tehama shooter - five killed plus the gunman, more than 10 people wounded. We're getting over Sutherland Springs, Texas - 26 dead, 20 wounded. On Sunday night, Monday morning, we had an earthquake in Iran that killed more than 500 people, 8,000 injured. Puerto Rico, which still doesn't have much power to begin with, suffered a major blackout, kicking out power to all but 22 percent of the island. There're only back up to 43 percent of the island now. This is in the wake of Hurricane Maria. The continuing horror being suffered by more than half a million Rohingya Muslims. And this week is the second anniversary of the Paris terror attacks that killed 130 people. This was all in one week. And it's amazing that I squished that all in. I went back and looked at all my story lists. And I was like...


COLEMAN: ...Last week feels like last year.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I feel like every year is dog year days, you know, like every day feels like seven years just in the news cycle. But just - there's so much going on. There's so much conversations happening. I mean, I don't know. Every time I see my friends, it just seems really heavy. It really does. It's just a lot of talk about all these really, really difficult issues.

COLEMAN: Has anybody said to you, what book did you read this week?


COLEMAN: What movie have you seen? I mean, I have not had that light conversation in more than a month...


COLEMAN: ...With anyone.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, I haven't. In fact, quite the opposite. Especially, I mean, among women, there's obviously a lot of talk about sexual harassment, which wasn't on your list and I know we're going to talk about later. But...


GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...It's like everybody is coming out with their stories. And then, on top of it, you've got all this news. And it's just - it's hard.

MCCAMMON: I'm going to go next. And my three words are death and taxes.


MCCAMMON: We all know that old cliche. And it's a cliche for a reason, right? Those are two certainties in life. And it's also true when it comes to the news. We can't seem to get away from either one, clearly. So taxes. This week, House Republicans passed their version of a tax bill. Senate is working on theirs. And the Senate bill got a lot more interesting this week when Republicans said their bill would eliminate the individual mandate from the Affordable Care Act - right? - the requirement that we all have to buy insurance. There are at least two reasons they want to do this. As we know, repealing Obamacare has been a goal of Republicans for a long time...


MCCAMMON: ...Something I heard about a lot on the campaign trail in 2016.

COLEMAN: Oh, yes, you did.

MCCAMMON: They haven't been able to do that. As we all know, they've tried multiple times. But the individual mandate is also the least popular part of the Obamacare package. So may be the easiest to get rid of. Another big reason is math. It would save $338 billion over 10 years, which would help the GOP make the math work for the tax cuts they want to pass. But we have to note that is because 13 million fewer people would have health insurance by 2027. So the tax bill, now a health care bill. Trump has been president for more than 300 days. Obamacare repeal was tried and failed multiple times. My question is, like, how are we still talking about this?

COLEMAN: They're not going to let this go. And they have to do this because they promised their voters - the Republicans I'm talking about, in both the House and Senate - that they would do their best to kill this thing. The other thing that's interesting, too, is Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson said he's not going to back it either. But he's kind of annoyed with the Senate version because he says it doesn't treat corporations fairly...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: The taxes now you're talking about.

COLEMAN: ...In terms of the taxes. So there's a whole different aspect to this that I had not given consideration to. And Republicans might actually object to it on sound Republican principles. You know, it increases the deficit. It doesn't treat corporations fairly. They want certain businesses to be as well-advantaged as other businesses. And they're not even thinking about the individual mandate or what health care might have to do with tax reform.

MCCAMMON: It's kind of a Catch-22 for Republicans...


MCCAMMON: ...Because they have a Republican Congress. They have a Republican president. And President Trump has not succeeded in getting any major legislative package through. Republicans do need to go to their voters next year and say, we did this. We accomplished something. So they need a win. Both the president and the Republicans in Congress need an accomplishment. But this is not necessarily going to win them a lot of...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's a poisoned apple. I mean, all these things are poisoned apples because, first of all, you're not going to please everybody. Second of all, it's unpopular - not only the Obamacare repeal but also their version of the tax bill that they're passing. You know, a lot of people have come out against it. It's obviously hugely complicated. Obviously, it has to be, you know - we have to wait and see what the Senate version is. There's a lot going on still so we don't really know what this is ultimately going to look like. But I think that they're in a really difficult position. And I think that part of this is because it's very easy, obviously - when you are in the opposition, when, you know - to, sort of, push something and then now...

COLEMAN: And now you have to govern.

MCCAMMON: And I talked to voters on the right who feel like it's Congress that's getting in the way of the president getting things done. And...

COLEMAN: And they want him - they want their lawmakers to do more...


COLEMAN: ...To support the president.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: They do. And I think, you know, there was this big debate when President Trump came into office among Republicans, which was, like, is the Republican Party going to change Donald Trump, or is Donald Trump going to change the Republican Party? And the answer is, like, obvious now with all the defections, all the people saying they're not going to run for re-election. It's clear that this is now Donald Trump's party. And they are struggling with that.

MCCAMMON: It's something we're going to definitely see the party wrestling with a ton over the next year. OK. We do have a more fun one, thankfully.


MCCAMMON: Lulu, you're last because your three words are on the lighter side. What have you got?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I do. My three words are on the lighter side because we need it. We need it.

COLEMAN: Bring it. Bring it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Mine is Butterball turkey hotline.



COLEMAN: Oh, my God. You're the best.


MCCAMMON: So what does it do?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So what does it do? It is a hotline that you call, and Butterball people are staffing it. And you basically call them with your turkey questions. Like, you know, what do I do? How do I baste things? But then this year, they had a really funny story about, like, the weirdest things that they've been asked. And so I have to read a few of them.



GARCIA-NAVARRO: So a mother returned home from work to find her husband thawing a frozen turkey in the bathtub while simultaneously washing up the kids.




GARCIA-NAVARRO: Giving the kids a bath with a frozen turkey...

COLEMAN: Do they float?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...Thawing...

COLEMAN: Do they float?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...And the kids were, like, the water's cold because, you know, it's a frozen turkey.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: There's more. A woman called the talk line, whispering her questions. When asked to speak up, the newlywed explained she was hiding in the closet from her mother-in-law whom she was trying to impress.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: She had no idea how to make a turkey. So she was, like, (whispering) hey, can you help me? I don't know what to do.

COLEMAN: (Laughter).

MCCAMMON: It's kind of precious.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I know. I liked it. And there's one more. A young man hosting his first Thanksgiving called the talk line while inside the grocery store. A turkey expert stayed on the phone, as he walked the aisle, advising him of all the items he needed to buy.

MCCAMMON: It's like a life coach.

COLEMAN: That's great.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. It's like a turkey life coach. And do you know what the most common call is about? How do I thaw my turkey?

COLEMAN: How do you thaw a turkey?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So, according to the article, the best way to thaw a turkey is to leave...

MCCAMMON: In the fridge, right?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Is in the fridge, exactly. But you have to plan in advance. So you have to leave it there for several days. And, you know, it's a whole thing. But if it's, sort of, like a last-minute thing, they do say to put it in water - preferably not in the bathtub with your kids.

COLEMAN: (Laughter).

MCCAMMON: Fair enough.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But there's one more fun Thanksgiving thing that I just have to say. Stove Top made stuffing-themed stretchy pants for Thanksgiving dinner. And they sold out. They sold out.

COLEMAN: What do they look like? Do they have, like, the Stove Top logo on...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: They have a Stove Top logo on the side. And then around the belly - like pregnancy pants - they have, like, stuffing pictures.


MCCAMMON: I feel like - don't we all, like, half of the time already wear, like, yoga pants? And, I mean, like...


MCCAMMON: So why do...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I don't know why you need to get specialty pants for that. But apparently, they cornered the market. So, you know...

COLEMAN: I don't know whether to be relieved or offended.

MCCAMMON: (Laughter).

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But they sold out. They sold out. Like, I'm sorry. I thought it was, like, a funny thing. And then we went on the website. And it's, like, sold out for Thanksgiving. People are actually going to be wearing these.

MCCAMMON: My mom used to quote this Bible verse. Make no provision for the flesh, which is, like, don't plan ahead to do the wrong thing. I feel like wearing stretchy pants is planning ahead to do the wrong things.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: Dude, I am totally that person.


MCCAMMON: On that note, we should mention when Sam is back next week, he'll have a special Thanksgiving edition of the show with food podcaster Dan Pashman of The Sporkful. They'll be hearing some Thanksgiving horror stories from listeners. That should be interesting. And the podcast version of that show will be out a day earlier than usual on Thanksgiving Day, so grab it for your Thanksgiving travels.

OK, right now, it's time for a quick break. Coming up - Long Distance with a listener down under and your favorite guessing game from the week of news, Who Said That? You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Sarah McCammon in for Sam Sanders. We'll be right back.


MCCAMMON: You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, the show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sarah McCammon in for Sam Sanders, who better not be checking Twitter on his vacation, Sam. I'm here this week with Korva Coleman, NPR newscaster...


MCCAMMON: ...And Lulu Garcia-Navarro, host of NPR's Weekend Edition Sunday.


MCCAMMON: So moving on - now it's time for a segment we call Long Distance.


MCCAMMON: This is where we call a listener somewhere in the world and talk to them about the news. And this week, on the line - very long distance, you guys - Cassie (ph), are you there?

CASSIE: Yeah. Hey, guys. How are you?



MCCAMMON: How are you?

COLEMAN: Hello, Cassie.

CASSIE: Yeah, I'm good. Thanks.

MCCAMMON: You're on the line with my NPR colleagues, Korva and Lulu. And we can probably guess, but where are we catching you?

CASSIE: You're catching me in Melbourne, Australia.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: What time is it there?

CASSIE: So at the moment, it's about 2:40 in the morning.


COLEMAN: You are a lovely person.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You are a very good person for doing this.

CASSIE: It's my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, guys.

MCCAMMON: Yeah. Thanks, Cassie. So thanks for letting us reach out to you in the future because I guess it's the next day there. We called you up this week mainly because of a vote that took place in Australia to legalize same-sex marriage there, right? Sixty-one percent of Australians said yes, but it's not official. This isn't a policy-changing vote, right?

CASSIE: Yeah. So what most people have been calling it is the non-binding voluntary postal survey. And yeah, as you said - 61 percent in the yes camp. But yeah, like you said, it's not necessarily in law yet. It's sort of looking like that'll definitely happen. But it was sort of taken to the people to test the waters in this weird way, even though everybody knew that 60 percent of the public supported same-sex marriage. And now the bill has been introduced into Parliament, and the hope is that it becomes legal before Christmas.

MCCAMMON: So right, this wasn't a vote in your Parliament. It was a vote by mail - public opinion survey, right? And the decision to do that before any official bill was your prime minister's, Malcolm Turnbull?

CASSIE: Yeah, so he's, like - he's part of the further-right-leaning party, but he himself is actually not that conservative compared to a lot of the rest of his party. And so this was sort of a way - yeah - for him to appease them by not just having a free vote in Parliament, which they could have done.


CASSIE: And if they had done it, it would've have passed, like, a lot earlier than it has now. But yeah, instead they had a - you know, a $100 million postal survey.

COLEMAN: What's happening to the people who voted no or want to vote no? What are these lawmakers doing now?

CASSIE: So the big concern from a lot of no-campaigners is religious freedom. I think, you guys had a similar debate when it came to gay marriage in the States about, you know, should a person who bakes a cake be able to refuse, you know, selling that cake to a gay wedding?

MCCAMMON: Yes, so those controversies continue.

CASSIE: Yeah. And I'm sure that they will keep going for us. But basically, there was a bill that - there was an alternative bill to the one currently introduced in Parliament that was brought in that had a lot of provisions for that. And that's been abandoned. So it looks like a lot of that stuff will keep being debated down the line.

But I think one of the things that has really come out is - you know, which is definitely the same, you know, situation that you guys are grappling with, is this disconnect between politicians and the public. In fact, one of the most avid no-campaigners - his seat - his electorate that he represents was 75 percent yes votes.

COLEMAN: Oh, my goodness.

CASSIE: And I think the sort of more-left-leaning party, the Labor Party here, a lot of their electorates, like, were actually on the lowest scale in terms of yes votes, which wasn't expected because they campaigned for yes. So I think it is going to be sort of a turning point in terms of politicians having realized that they need to get out more. And they didn't really realize what the will of their particular electorates was. So I think it could be a really, really positive thing.

MCCAMMON: Interesting. And so at any rate, Malcolm Turnbull, the prime minister, says he intends to make this the law of the land by Christmas. Cassie, I wanted to ask you about something unrelated. We hear that on Monday, you're leaving for a very long vacation.

COLEMAN: Where you going?

CASSIE: Yeah, indeed. So I'm very, very excited about this. So I finished uni.


CASSIE: University, yeah, sorry - like, about a week and a half ago and so...

COLEMAN: Congratulations.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Congratulations.


CASSIE: Thank you so much. I'm so happy. And I will be getting on a plane to a five-week holiday around the United States.



CASSIE: Yeah. And I leave on Monday, and I'm so excited. I've never been to America.

MCCAMMON: Oh, cool.

COLEMAN: Welcome.


CASSIE: Thanks so much, guys.

MCCAMMON: So why'd you want to come to the U.S.?

CASSIE: That's a really interesting question. So I really love - I mean, I'm sure you guys don't anymore, but I really love U.S. politics.



GARCIA-NAVARRO: God bless you.

CASSIE: Yeah, I think I'm in sort of an optimal position that, like, we're on the outside here. And I can sort of just, like, look at it and not feel too strongly like it's affecting my life. Also, I'm going alone, so like, everything I've heard is that Americans are super friendly, and that I'll make lots of friends and won't have that language barrier.

So I'm doing - I start in L.A., then I'm going to Vegas to see the Grand Canyon. And then I go to New York, and then I'm in Boston, and then I'm in D.C., New Orleans, Houston - I'm going to fly in and out of Houston for one day - San Diego and San Francisco.

COLEMAN: That's really quite the itinerary.



GARCIA-NAVARRO: That sounds amazing.

MCCAMMON: How did you prioritize, of all the places you could go in the U.S.?

CASSIE: Ooh, so a big part of my trip has been around, what am I going to eat?


GARCIA-NAVARRO: You're a woman after my own heart.

CASSIE: It's sort of my plan.

MCCAMMON: I love it. So thanks so much, Cassie, and thanks for talking to us in, essentially, the middle of the night for you. And I hope you have a wonderful trip to the U.S.

COLEMAN: Congratulations.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, congratulations, and have a great time.

CASSIE: Thank you so much, guys. And thank you so much for having me. It's been, like, really, really good to talk to you.


MCCAMMON: Listeners, we want to talk to you for this segment. If you want to give us a call, we want to hear about anything going on where you live. Just drop us a note. Tell us what's happening at samsanders@npr.org.


MCCAMMON: OK, time for our main story of the week. And a huge caveat here - we're recording the show on Friday morning. Who knows what could change by the time you hear this?

COLEMAN: (Laughter).


MCCAMMON: Once again, guys, we're talking about accusations of sexual harassment and assault by powerful men, which have dominated the news this week. We want to talk to you about how politics is kind of the latest realm for this round of discussion about sexual harassment. It's the latest realm of American life to be jolted by what you might call the Weinstein effect. It's an issue that we have dealt with here at NPR as well and continue to deal with. Guys, how has it felt, you know, watching the latest round of news about all of this?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think it's a moment, right? So I think this is painful. It's hard. I think - I have described this to people as a moment where women are having this sort of collective therapy where things that were buried are now being unearthed and excavated, and we're having really difficult conversations about what that looks like.

And I think we're also, as a society, asking ourselves really difficult questions like, should we try people in the court of public opinion? If we don't do it that way, how then can we find out if there's been a pattern of behavior? Because once you hear one public accusation, the thing that we've learned is that there's never just one. More people tend to come forward.

And so I think it's been really, really hard. It certainly prompted tough conversations here in the office but also among my friends and family. And I don't know, you know? It's just overwhelming. But at the same time, it's good, right?

COLEMAN: I think it's good.


MCCAMMON: Yeah, I hope this changes the culture going forward and just empowers women to push back and call things out. And...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Not be afraid.

COLEMAN: I'm still struck by something. It's that you still need 50 women to equal the word of one man, even when the accusations by women about sexual harassment or assault take on that sameness. You realize that you're reading a story of a different accuser, and the way that it happened or the way that the victim was picked out is completely similar, and eerie, and frightening and creepy. And then a third accuser steps forward and has a similar story, and you're thinking, oh, my God.

And then, it - there are things about how youthful the alleged victim was or the fact that even here in our own office, people are finally confiding in each other about how frightened they were - worries about retaliation. The only antiseptic that's going to work - the only disinfectant that's going to work is sunlight.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: One of the things that's been interesting to me is seeing the latest round of accusations - when we're talking on the political level, you know, we saw this week Senator Al Franken with that pretty shocking photo and the allegations against him. But when you see it digested, when the woman who accused him - Leeann Tweeden - talked about it on television - she gave a press conference - then all the pundits come out, and they're talking about her credibility.

They're saying, well, she seemed pretty credible to me. She seemed, you know - she seemed like it was a coherent story. And, you know, she seemed really like she knew what she was talking about. Also, there's photographic evidence. But this idea of credibility, it's - I have to say it bugs me. I have to say, when people come forward, they...

COLEMAN: No, you're not alone.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's the thing that really, really kind of bugs me because we're still having this discussion about, when you come forward, I'm going to judge you to see if you kind of fit my idea of a credible witness. Or was your skirt too short? Or are you not speaking clearly? Or were you drunk?

COLEMAN: What did you say to him?


COLEMAN: You know, you must have led him on. There must have been something that you did.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And it irritates me. I've got to tell you, it irritates me.

MCCAMMON: And it's come up in the other big political, you know, name we've been hearing about for a couple of weeks now - Roy Moore - as we know, the Republican running for Senate in Alabama to replace Jeff Sessions. Those allegations of sexual misconduct and assault have continued to come in this week. There've been more. And several of the allegations, we should say, involve victims who were teenagers at the time, and Moore was over 30. He's...

COLEMAN: And I just want to point out, one of those alleged victims was 14.


MCCAMMON: Right, 14. So he's continued to deny the allegations. He has doubled down, tripled down on denying them, has refused calls from leaders of his own party to step aside. And we should note that some in his party are supporting him, especially the state GOP in Alabama.

COLEMAN: And there are women of GOP - leading GOP women have come out very strongly in support of him in Alabama. He is their candidate. They believe that he needs to be afforded the presumption of innocence until he is tried in a court of law. And until that happens, even though the statute of limitations has expired, they are sticking by this person.

MCCAMMON: I mean, I think this has created an unexpected opportunity for Democrats in Alabama. Doug Jones is the candidate there - may have a shot at winning what was supposed to be a solidly Republican seat. This is at a time when the Senate - you know, there are 52 Republicans in the Senate right now, so that would erode that margin of control. It has - there's a lot at stake here. And there's a lot at stake for both parties because, clearly, this is an issue that cuts across party lines. I think it's been really interesting to watch how members of both parties respond as these allegations surface, you know...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Very interesting.

COLEMAN: And looking at who's been involved because, you know, let's look back at Harvey Weinstein - big Democratic Party donor. Lots of money, lots of contacts in the Democratic Party. The comedian Louis C.K. - widely seen as liberal. On the flip side, you have all the allegations that occurred at Fox News with Roger Ailes, with Bill O'Reilly. So this, as you pointed out, Sarah, is not a question of what party you belong to or what political leaning you have. Sexual harassment...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, no one has moral authority...

COLEMAN: Thank you.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...On this issue.

COLEMAN: Exactly.

MCCAMMON: The common thread is powerful men.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Right. So you have the moral issue, which we can debate all day, and we can discuss. But then, of course, this is not happening in a political vacuum. And people are looking at where, exactly, this is going to land. You saw President Trump, himself - as has been said, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones because he, of course, tweeted, calling Al Franken Frankenstein and saying that - you know, trying to make political capital out of what happened to him while really not saying very much about the Roy Moore issue.

COLEMAN: Not saying - at all.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So he's very much weighing in in a partisan way. And I think that is because there is a lot at stake. You know, the Senate decides a lot of this legislation. And so who's going to come in and who isn't?

MCCAMMON: And the reason you say glass houses there is because, of course, more than a dozen women went on record accusing Donald Trump of varying degrees of sexual misconduct, including assault, during the campaign. But clearly, this has been going on for a long time, right? And in many ways, arguably, the first large-scale attention to the issue began in politics, right?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Right. Anita Hill.

MCCAMMON: Anita Hill, back in the early '90s. Then there was Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, so many others.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Bill Clinton, another person who's getting a lot of attention again.

MCCAMMON: A lot of attention. And, you know, there have been, periodically kind of - as far back as 1998, I think, there was a Vanity Fair piece sort of calling out feminists for their continued support for Bill Clinton...


MCCAMMON: ...Who, let's remember, was accused not just of a sensibly consensual affair with a much younger subordinate - not Monica Lewinsky - but has been accused of rape...


MCCAMMON: ...By Juanita Broaddrick and sexual harassment by other women, as well - you know, has multiple allegations against him. And he has continued to be a major figure in the Democratic Party. But the other question I have about all of this is, you know, here we are, revisiting many, many, many things that have happened, often in the distant past, including Bill Clinton. And I think the question I've heard a lot but I don't know that I've gotten a good answer to is, why now? I mean, obviously Weinstein kicked off a lot of this. We live in an age where social media changes conversations. But why is it now that, suddenly, this is all taken so much more seriously than it was every other time?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What happened the day after the inauguration? Who was out on the streets?

COLEMAN: Women on seven continents.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That really was a huge moment. And I think that we can't lay everything at President Donald Trump's door, even though many liberals, in particular, would love to. This has been building for a long time. You know, it started, obviously, with Anita Hill. These conversations have been evolving over time. I think the Harvey Weinstein issue in particular because it was so egregious, because it was so shocking, because it was so pervasive, and there was such a culture of silence around it. There was such a complicity by so many different groups.

COLEMAN: Women as well as men.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Women as well as men - that I think it was a wake-up call for people to think about their own behavior, how they may have abetted this behavior in their own life. The other thing I'll say - so there's three things, OK? I'm lying, right? So I said one, and then I said two, and now there's a third thing. I think also because it was Harvey Weinstein. And then the people that he did this to were actresses. They have big platforms. They came forward. You know, these are people with big voices. Celebrity culture is huge in the United States, so when you have Reese Witherspoon talking about her own experience, when you have a lot of people with big names talking about being sexually harassed, sexually assaulted, it's going to change the conversation. So I think three things.


GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think there was - definitely, the election played a part of it - President Trump and the allegations against him. Then, you know, the fact that Harvey Weinstein was so egregious and the fact that, you know, these are really famous women.

COLEMAN: And the thing that you point out that really sticks out to me, Lulu, it's that we're listening to women with big platforms who have had a great deal to say, who are leading lights in Hollywood. And yet we turn to women who have led very private lives, who are conservative women in Alabama who say they voted for Trump - never imagined they would have the attention being paid to them as they're getting now. And they're finding that they're not being believed.


MCCAMMON: I wonder where this goes. Are we in for weeks, months, years of more and more, you know - every news cycle finding out another powerful man...

COLEMAN: I think as many times as somebody comes forward and something happens, I think this is going to happen for a little bit because even now - even now as we're talking, there are women weighing in their own minds - hey, this is what happened to those women in Alabama. If I come forward, is my name going to be run through the mud? Am I going to be disbelieved? Am I going to be discredited? There are people who were saying, I don't know that I want to go forward and then maybe, for some reason, may have a change of heart. It takes time for women to come forward. Women don't report allegations or incidents for years - decades - they come forward. So it could be one of those things where this is just sort of a pebble. And it's going to roll and roll and roll. And as women feel comfortable coming forward, perhaps they will continue to come forward.

MCCAMMON: So, you know, one last thing about this - Lulu, you mentioned this issue of the court of public opinion and how, you know, on the one hand, we want to believe women. We don't want to drag them through the mud when they're reporting awful experiences. On the other hand, you know, there is - we're kind of in the midst of - there's a lot of outrage right now, a lot of discussion. You know, and we're kind of almost coming to this narrative of, oh, one more, one more. Does that leave any room for - I mean, how much room should there be for nuance in these different discussions? I mean, there's Al Franken. There's Roy Moore. There's Harvey Weinstein. Every situation's a little bit different. The victims are different. There is - you know, there's everything from sexual harassment to assault to rape. Should we be talking about the nuances? Is this the time for that? Or how do we - you know, how do we talk about that?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It is the time for that, but it's hard. I don't know the best way forward, but, clearly, everything is not the same. Everything is not the same. You can't equate rape with somebody maybe making an inappropriate comment to you or looking at your breasts while you're talking. Those two things are different. They have to be different.

MCCAMMON: I think that's just common sense.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And yet - and yet...

MCCAMMON: And yet, even the milder ones are an issue.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Have all - are an issue and have all sorts of effects. And if someone's usually just staring at your breasts, they're usually doing other things, too, so it becomes complicated. And I don't know that it's - why is it we women that have to litigate this? I mean, I just come back to like, why is it us that have to sit around having these discussions about what has to happen even think about this?

COLEMAN: Think about this. Think about this. Even think about this. We don't talk about how many rapists there are when we count violent crime. We count how many women have been raped. We don't count how many boys impregnate teenage girls. We count how many girls got pregnant. It's always been on the women. It's always about us and whether our behavior has been appropriate and further...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And if I hear that word witch hunt one more time. Who used to hunt witches?




MCCAMMON: And I think we're having conversations in a lot of areas about systems and processes that were set up often by powerful men - white men.

COLEMAN: Men. Not to benefit us.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: A long time ago.

MCCAMMON: A long time ago. And in a lot of areas, we're kind of rethinking, how did those systems work, and are they fair?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. I don't want to hear this are-we-there-yet thing still. You know, yeah. It's exhausting. It's hard. But are we there yet? No.

COLEMAN: Not even close.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Not even close.


MCCAMMON: All right. Time for one more quick break. When we come back, Who Said That? And the best things that happened to our listeners all week. We'll be right back.

SHANKAR VEDANTAM, BYLINE: Some people like to look at the world through rose-colored glasses. I prefer the lens of the social sciences.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There's more than one of you in there.

VEDANTAM: I'm Shankar Vedantam, host of Hidden Brain. Each week, we ask the questions, what does it mean to be human, and why do we do what we do? Listen along as we find the answers.

MCCAMMON: We're back. All right. Now it's time for a game we call...


KANDI BURRUSS: Who had been saying that?

MCCAMMON: ...You guys know this sound?

COLEMAN: Let's go.


MCCAMMON: All right. I share a quote...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm mad at this.

MCCAMMON: I share a quote from the week, you guys have to guess who said that. We'll do three or four of these. The winner gets nothing, actually.


MCCAMMON: I'm sorry.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Not even a Weekend Edition lapel pin? Oh, my god.

COLEMAN: Oh, jeez.

MCCAMMON: So first quote - needs work on his form, but not bad for his first time. Who said that?


COLEMAN: Is this a political thing?

MCCAMMON: Mhmm. I'll tell you it was a senator who said this. A Republican senator from Florida.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh. Marco Rubio?





MCCAMMON: So he was poking fun at President Trump who, during a long speech...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, was this - the water.

COLEMAN: The water.

MCCAMMON: Yes. Yes. Great. Let's play the tape.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Seventeen thousand jobs - thank you. They don't have water? That's OK. What? That's OK.

MCCAMMON: So Trump's standing there. He reaches under the podium, tries to find the water, can't find the water - this awkward pause. Somebody, I guess, hands it to him. And then, you know, he just looks - sort of like struggling to get the cap off before he finally takes a drink.


TRUMP: Japanese manufacturers...

MCCAMMON: Was such a cringe-worthy moment.

COLEMAN: (Laughter).

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, it really was.

MCCAMMON: And guys, you know why this is extra funny, right?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Because he attacked Marco Rubio for this.

COLEMAN: For the whole thing about Marco needing...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Little Marco needed water...

COLEMAN: ...His reply to the State of the Union, his big debut moment - and coming - and really needing that drink of water.

MCCAMMON: Yep. He said that Rubio was a choke artist. And yeah. He made a lot of fun of that on the campaign trail. So Rubio, of course, gets his - I guess, his vindication. He tweeted a full review of the moment, saying, similar, but needs work on his form. Has to be done in one single motion, and eye should never leave the camera...


MCCAMMON: ...But not bad for his first time.

So next. The minute it happened, I knew it was going to be a great photo but I didn't know it would turn into such an internet phenomenon.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, I know what the photo is. I don't know the name of the photographer, though.

COLEMAN: You probably win. What is it? So this is the photo that was taken at the printing press with Mnuchin and his...



GARCIA-NAVARRO: Thank you. And his wife...

COLEMAN: Oh with - oh, the money.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...And the money with the black gloves...

MCCAMMON: Treasury...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...Dressed, like, in this black - I don't want to talk about a woman's clothing. But it was just such a - it was just - the whole thing was just kind of really weird.


MCCAMMON: And that quote was from - the AP photographer's name was Jacquelyn Martin, who this week captured an image of Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and his wife Louise Linton holding up a sheet of newly printed $1 bills bearing his signature. She said, her direct gaze at the camera and touch of her gloved hand on his as they hold a sheet of money together seems to have struck a chord with many viewers.

COLEMAN: Well, she likes to tweet about what she's wearing. Designer names and...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, I know. She's - I mean, she's - I mean, she was dressed beautifully, it's just - it was just a very odd moment.

MCCAMMON: And she's gotten flak in the past for tweeting pictures of her, you know, designer clothing and goods...

COLEMAN: Her ensemble.

MCCAMMON: ...And just sort of, you know, sort of parading her wealth.

COLEMAN: It was memorable.

MCCAMMON: All right.

COLEMAN: Let's roll.

MCCAMMON: This is your chance, Korva.

COLEMAN: I'm trying.

MCCAMMON: Last quote. This is probably one of the most embarrassing things I've seen in this department. This is a harder one, but it's good.

COLEMAN: This had better not be something that is just so obscure.

MCCAMMON: (Laughter). OK. It has to do with Police Department...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think I know, but...


GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...I'm not going to say again because...

COLEMAN: I'm trying now.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...But I don't - I don't - I'm not sure. So I'm just going to let it go.

COLEMAN: OK. Wait. Give me another hint. Give me another hint.

MCCAMMON: Detroit.


MCCAMMON: And it involved people doing their job but kind of being at cross purposes.

COLEMAN: You know something? I think I'm done. You go.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, no. I'm actually - no. So fill us in.

MCCAMMON: Detroit Police Chief James Craig at a news conference Monday afternoon at police headquarters - he was talking about something that happened this week when two groups of undercover officers from two different precincts...

COLEMAN: Oh, no, no, no.

MCCAMMON: ...Got in a fist fight.

COLEMAN: (Groaning).


MCCAMMON: So USA Today said officers from the 11th Precinct planned to raid a suspected drug house in the area they are responsible for covering. As they approached it about 6 p.m, the officers confronted two people several doors away, apparently not realizing they were undercover cops from the 12th Precinct. Craig said the officers from the 11th Precinct ordered the undercover officers to the ground. And at some point, an officer pointed a shotgun at the pair.


MCCAMMON: This is when it started to go terribly wrong. Craig said...

COLEMAN: Wait, what?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's when it started to go terribly...

COLEMAN: What about the preceding stuff?

MCCAMMON: Yeah - good question. Punches were thrown. Headlocks were applied. Apparently, no one from either precinct gave anyone in the other a heads-up. But the good news is no one was seriously hurt.

COLEMAN: Do they have intramural baseball games. I mean...


COLEMAN: ...How is that going to work?

MCCAMMON: Hopefully, a little less intense - OK. So who won the game? I guess it was Lulu.



MCCAMMON: Congratulations.

COLEMAN: Go, go, go.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Thank you, thank you.

MCCAMMON: You win nothing...


MCCAMMON: ...But congratulations.



GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah - honor.

MCCAMMON: All right. With that, we are just about done. But first, a plug for Tuesday's episode - Sam is back with a conversation he had with Bill Nye the Science Guy...

COLEMAN: Woo-hoo.

MCCAMMON: ...And how he became the science guy. And there's a new documentary out that profiles Bill. One interesting thing is, you know, Bill Nye is a bit older now. And he says he kind of regrets not having a family because he was so focused on his show for so many years.

COLEMAN: Aw, that's too bad.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's interesting.

MCCAMMON: Yeah. It's also interesting to hear a man talk about that. I feel like...

COLEMAN: Yeah, it is.

MCCAMMON: ...We hear women talk about that a lot.


MCCAMMON: So check your feed for that on Tuesday. All right. And with that, we are going to end the weekly wrap the way we always do. Each week, we ask listeners to send us a recording of them sharing the best thing that happened...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: This is my favorite thing in the world.

COLEMAN: Let's go.

MCCAMMON: Isn't it great? This is my best thing right now.

COLEMAN: Aw, let's go. Yeah.

MCCAMMON: We encourage them to brag. So let's take a listen.

FILIPE: This is Filipe (ph) from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. And the best thing that happened to me this week was hearing my 3-month-old daughter laughing for the first time - was so amazing and beautiful. Thank you so much. Bye, bye.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: (Foreign language spoken).

KRISTEN: This is Kristen (ph) and I live, at the moment, in Pasadena, Calif. And the best thing that happened to me this week is I just found out that they accepted the offer that we made on a house. And we are finally going to be homeowners.

DAVID: The best thing that happened to me all week was getting to vote my courageous wife mayor of our little borough.

COLEMAN: All right.

MCCAMMON: Congratulations.

MELISSA: On the night before my son's second birthday, the concept of giving kisses just clicked for him. And he did it over and over again and laughed each time. And just thinking about his laugh makes me so happy.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That is the best thing.

MARY: Hey y'all. My name is Mary (ph) and I'm currently sitting in my dorm room at Wellesley College. The best thing that happened to me this week is that I called my 89-year-old grandpa to start planning his trip out for my commencement ceremony. And he told me how proud he is of me and how excited he is that I'm going to be the first person in our family to be a college graduate.

COLEMAN: Congratulations.

LUCIA: Greetings from Italy - this is Lucia (ph). And I am so excited because the best thing that happened to me this week was that I was able to get tickets to go to see Foo Fighters. They are one of my favorite bands. And I never saw them. And I'm going to see them next June. And I'm very, very happy.

SHERRY: This is Sherry (ph) from Fayetteville, Ga. And the best thing that happened to me this week is that after about nine months of training and rearranging my house, I finally got my very first foster placement. I am a new mommy - first-time mommy - to a 15-month-old little boy. And I couldn't be happier.


MCCAMMON: So cool.

DAN: This is Dan calling from Chapel Hill, N.C., where I'm spending the week with my 96-year-old grandmother and my 97-year-old grandfather, both of whom are in hospice right now in their very last days of life. The best part of my week was wheeling my grandmother in by his bedside and helping them to hold hands for the very last time and witnessing the love that they have for each other after 74 years of marriage. Thanks for everything you do.

DAVID: Keep up the good work.

SHERRY: OK, bye.

DAN: Bye, bye.

MCCAMMON: You guys are choking me up.


COLEMAN: And me.


MCCAMMON: Thanks so much to all of you - Filipe, Kristen, David (ph), Melissa (ph), Mary, Lucia, Sherry and Dan. If you want to share your best thing all week, you can do that any time throughout the week. Just record yourself and email the file to samsanders@npr.org. He will be back soon. OK, that's a wrap on the show. Usually, we'd go back to Blake Shelton, the way we started the show, but...


MCCAMMON: Maybe? Once is enough.


COLEMAN: Must we? Must we?

MCCAMMON: OK. So IT'S BEEN A MINUTE was edited this week by Jeff Rogers and Steve Nelson. Our big boss, the vice president of programming at NPR is Anya Grundmann. And the show is produced by Brent Baughman and Anjuli Sastry. Refresh your feed Tuesday morning for Iliza Schlesinger. Lulu, Korva, thank you both...


COLEMAN: Thank you.

MCCAMMON: ...For doing the show this week.


MCCAMMON: Sam's back next week. I'm Sarah McCammon. Thanks for listening.


ARDEN: NPR newscaster Korva Coleman and the host of NPR's WEEKEND EDITION SUNDAY, Lulu Garcia-Navarro - OK. Let's start the show.

MCCAMMON: That was great, Arden (ph). Should we have them do the together line together, though?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yeah. So Sarah is our mom?


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: OK. All right. Put your mouths really close together.

MCCAMMON: Maybe give them, like, a hand countdown or something...


MCCAMMON: ...finger count.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: One, two, three.

ARDEN: Sarah...

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Guys - sorry. I'm going to say one, two, three. And you guys say - just say Sarah is our mom at the same time, OK? All right - one, two, three.

ARDEN AND EBBEN: Sarah is our mom.



MCCAMMON: All right. They rock. Good job, guys. I'll buy you fro-yo.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: She said you get fro-yo.

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