Weekly Wrap: "Just Do It." It's Friday: Sam is dreaming about the news with NPR tech reporter Jasmine Garsd (@JasGarsd) and reporter and public radio host Lizzie O'Leary (@lizzieohreally) . They're discussing the Brett Kavanaugh hearings, the anonymous New York Times op-ed and teens using social media. Plus a chat about Nike's new Colin Kaepernick ad and what it says about corporations and "wokeness." Buy tickets to our next Los Angeles live show at kp.cc/IBAM.
NPR logo

Weekly Wrap: "Just Do It."

  • Download
  • <iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/645585985/645715496" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player">
  • Transcript
Weekly Wrap: "Just Do It."

Weekly Wrap: "Just Do It."

  • Download
  • <iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/645585985/645715496" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player">
  • Transcript

AUNT BETTY: Hey, y'all. This is Sam's Aunt Betty. This week on the show, reporter and public radio host Lizzie O'Leary and NPR reporter Jasmine Garsd. All right - let's start the show.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEETWOOD MAC SONG, "DREAMS")

SAM SANDERS, HOST:

Hey, y'all. From NPR, I'm Sam Sanders. IT'S BEEN A MINUTE, here with two great guests today, Lizzie O'Leary, reporter and public radio host - thanks for being here.

LIZZIE O'LEARY, BYLINE: Thank you for having me.

SANDERS: Oh, yeah - and Jasmine Garsd, reporter covering tech here at NPR in the New York bureau. You just finished filing some other stuff before you rushed in the studio. I'm happy for your time today. Thank you.

JASMINE GARSD, BYLINE: Thank you so much for having me.

SANDERS: Oh, yeah. We're also joined in studio by one of the best songs of all time, Fleetwood Mac's "Dreams." I'm playing it for many reasons today. But first, I just want to hear it for a second. Let it just wash over us.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DREAMS")

FLEETWOOD MAC: (Singing) Thunder only happens when it's raining. Players only love you when they're playing.

SANDERS: I think it's a perfect song.

GARSD: It's also - it's melancholy but also liberating because she realized that this guy...

SANDERS: ...Wasn't going to work.

GARSD: It's not going to work. And it's better that - she dodged a bullet.

SANDERS: She dodged a bullet. That bullet is Lindsey Buckingham, who was in the band.

GARSD: (Laughter).

SANDERS: And I'm playing this song...

O'LEARY: She didn't dodge it the whole time.

SANDERS: Exactly, exactly. So I'm playing this not just because I love Fleetwood Mac and this song but, as we probably know by now, for the last few months, Fleetwood Mac has been involved in some drama. They kicked out Lindsey Buckingham, one of the leads of the band, the focus of this song that Stevie Nicks wrote. And they kicked him out. And they announced they're going to go on tour without him. Once they announced that, Lindsey Buckingham said, I'll show you. I'm going to go on a solo tour with some of the same dates in the same cities as Fleetwood Mac. So this drama has...

O'LEARY: Oh, that's petty.

SANDERS: It's so petty.

O'LEARY: It's - wow.

GARSD: (Laughter).

SANDERS: But I live for it. I love it. So all this is going on. And this week, Fleetwood Mac made their first TV appearance with new members of the band. So they played a few songs on "Ellen" without Lindsey Buckingham. They had Mike Campbell with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and Neil Finn from Crowded House but no Lindsey.

O'LEARY: Is Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey Fleetwood Mac?

SANDERS: This is the question.

GARSD: This is like when Queen tours.

O'LEARY: Yeah.

SANDERS: With, like, whoever now.

GARSD: With who - yeah...

O'LEARY: ...Random person...

SANDERS: It feels weird.

O'LEARY: ...Guns N' Roses.

SANDERS: I'm also playing this song, "Dreams" by Fleetwood Mac, because I made a special playlist for NPR Music this summer. They have been having a series of playlists called Rose Wave, which are, like, songs that feel like summer for you. I put out my playlist a little bit ago. It's called Endless Summer. It features "Dreams" by Fleetwood Mac. If you want to check it out, it's on the Internet. It's in my tweets. It's at NPR Music. Go check it out.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DREAMS")

FLEETWOOD MAC: (Singing) You will know. You'll know.

SANDERS: With that - really grateful to my guests today, Lizzie and Jasmine, who are here with me to look back on the week of news, culture and everything else. Also, you Friday listeners, I want to send you back in our feed to our latest Tuesday episode. I talked with two White House correspondents - Katie Rogers from The New York Times, Geoff Bennett from NBC News. They told me that the relationship between the White House press corps and the White House used to be kind of a game of chess. Now, they say, this White House is eating the entire chessboard - so super fun chat. Check it out. It's real good.

All right, we're going to start by having all of us describe our week of news in only three words. I'm going first this week. I have three words. They are, "Just Do It."

O'LEARY: Wonder where you got that.

SANDERS: Wonder where I got that from - yeah. You know. This is the 30th anniversary of Nike's iconic slogan "Just Do It." They, in celebration of that anniversary, have Colin Kaepernick. He's the face and voice of that campaign. I'm going to talk more about that later because I interviewed a really smart sports writer about what it all means. But I also say just do it this week because it felt like this was a week in Washington, D.C., where all of them just did it.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Like, it was an extra slice of a crazy town this week. No?

O'LEARY: It was like, I'm just - here you go.

SANDERS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I have literally a laundry list of all of the weirdness that happened in Washington, D.C., this week. Bear with me. I want us to go through it. Senator Cory Booker, Democrat from New Jersey - he went literally full Spartacus during this Kavanaugh Supreme Court hearing. Booker basically said, I'm going to break Senate rules and release some Kavanaugh emails that I should not. Later, Trump administration officials - they say they did clear those emails. But Cory Booker still went, I dare you to fire me.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

JOHN CORNYN: ...And the punishment...

CORY BOOKER: Bring it.

CORNYN: ...For contempt. So I would...

BOOKER: Bring it. Bring it.

CORNYN: I would correct the senator's statement, there is no rule. There is clearly a rule that applies.

RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: Mr. Chairman...

BOOKER: Then apply the rule. Bring the charges.

(LAUGHTER)

GARSD: It's kind of like the political equivalent of come at me, bro.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Yes.

O'LEARY: Totally.

SANDERS: It was a total come at me, bro. And that's just, like - the list goes on and on. In these same hearings for Brett Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court, Kamala Harris - Democrat senator from California - she basically was trying out for "Law & Order" with this intense grilling of Kavanaugh over whether or not he was talking about the Mueller investigation. I think we have audio of that as well.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

KAMALA HARRIS: How can you not remember whether or not you had a conversation about Robert Mueller or his investigation with anyone at that law firm?

BRETT KAVANAUGH: I don't...

HARRIS: This investigation has only been going on for so long, sir.

KAVANAUGH: Right. I'm not...

HARRIS: So please answer the question.

KAVANAUGH: ...Sure I - I'm just trying to think, do I know anyone who works at that firm? I might know...

HARRIS: Have you had - that's not my question. My question's, have you had a conversation...

GARSD: Oh...

SANDERS: That's not my - and this went on for seven minutes. Right? So as this grandstanding is going on in the hearing, there are actors and protesters dressed as women from "The Handmaid's Tale." All of this is going on in the same week Bob Woodward releases - or is about to release a tell-all book about the Trump White House and releases audio and transcripts of a phone call he has had with President Trump.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

BOB WOODWARD: ...I understand.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And I certainly don't mind talking to you. And I wish I could have spoken to you.

WOODWARD: Well, it's...

TRUMP: But you know - but nobody called my office. I mean, you went through...

SANDERS: That's not all, you guys. There's more.

GARSD: More people just did it.

SANDERS: There's more. There was a damn-near shoving fight between Senator Marco Rubio and right-wing provocateur Alex Jones in the halls of Congress.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Here's a question.

MARCO RUBIO: Don't touch me again, man. I'm asking you not to touch me.

ALEX JONES: What's wrong? I just patted you nicely.

RUBIO: I know. But I don't want to be touched.

JONES: Oh, you want me to get arrested?

RUBIO: I don't know who you are.

JONES: It's not - just going to take my First Amendment?

RUBIO: You're not going to get arrested, man.

JONES: It's not just enough to take my First Amendment?

RUBIO: You're not going to get arrested. I'll take care of you myself.

JONES: Oh. Oh, you'll beat me up?

RUBIO: I didn't say that.

SANDERS: Literally, Marco Rubio's saying, don't touch me, bro. Don't touch me.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: But my favorite, weirdest bit of crazy, to sum up D.C.'s crazy week of crazy, was this amazing tape of a congressman, Billy Long, who, after being interrupted by an alt-right protester in a congressional hearing, he broke out in a full auctioneer's chant.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

BILLY LONG: (Chanting) Four-and-a-quarter, 4 1/2 - we're selling the cell phone there. Four-and-a-quarter, 4 1/2. At 4 1/2, 475? Five hundred? Five - 5 1/4, 5 1/2.

I yield back.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: In the halls of Congress.

O'LEARY: If you had a previous life as an auctioneer, I think you have to find every moment possible...

SANDERS: To do that (laughter).

O'LEARY: ...To work it in.

GARSD: Absolutely.

O'LEARY: Like, how could you not?

SANDERS: And also - and speaking of the crazy of this week, I forget to mention, you know, the Deep Throat op-ed heard across the world from The New York Times where someone, a senior White House official, cops to being, a quote, unquote, "resistance inside the West Wing." What is happening?

GARSD: Which also caused a lot of controversy because a lot of people said, you're not being brave and courageous. You would be brave if you used your real name.

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: Right?

SANDERS: Yeah. Lizzie, do you have three words?

O'LEARY: I do. It kind of plays into the op-ed bit. My words are duty to whom - which I know are, like, very serious. But I'm thinking a lot about institutions and whether individual actors have a duty to institutions or the duty to the people they serve. So in the example of the op-ed, like, is your duty to the White House and to kind of keep the gears running, if you're the writer? Or do you have a duty to the people of the United States, even ones who did not vote for President Trump, because that is who the White House serves? Right? It serves everybody.

SANDERS: Everybody.

O'LEARY: Or it should serve everybody.

This also goes along with what has been, like, a really constant period of uproar in the Catholic Church. Who do church leaders have a duty to? We now see - you know, this grand jury report came out of Pennsylvania with more than a thousand children reportedly abused. Also...

SANDERS: For decades.

O'LEARY: Yeah, for decades. And we've got investigations in New York, New Jersey, other states. And I think a lot of American Catholics are wrestling with - does the church feel like it has any duty to me, a parishioner, a person who goes to church, believes in it, or just is it to themselves? Like, is that who they are protecting? And I don't know the answer to that yet, but it's rough.

SANDERS: Oh, yeah. And like, there are no answers. I mean, like, the church has no answers.

O'LEARY: Uh-uh.

SANDERS: The pope has no answers.

O'LEARY: The pope has no - I mean, this is obviously...

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: ...Happening for the pope, as well.

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: I wasn't raised Catholic, but both my parents were. And they left the church in the '70s because they just sort of said - you know what? - we don't feel like the church is responding to modernity.

SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah. Jasmine, you Catholic?

GARSD: Yeah. I - half - I'm a cashew. I'm half-Catholic, half-Jewish.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: I've never heard that before.

O'LEARY: That's amazing.

GARSD: But I know - so I was raised in South America, where I'm from. And I know there was somewhat of a similar situation with the Catholic Church kind of implicitly supporting dictatorships that were really brutal.

SANDERS: Oy.

O'LEARY: I want to add one other duty-to-whom question...

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: ...Because we are - so September is sort of the - the first and second weeks of September, we are 10 years out from really the, like, hottest fire of the financial crisis...

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: ...When Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-backed mortgage giants, failed; when Lehman Brothers, the investment bank, failed; and then when AIG, the massive insurance company, failed. And...

SANDERS: That was 10 years ago.

O'LEARY: That was 10 years ago. And it...

SANDERS: Wow.

O'LEARY: ...All happened in a really short period of time.

SANDERS: I remember.

O'LEARY: So September 7, 15, 16 - we're all in there. And I know I was covering it at the time. And I still think we don't have a good answer in terms of, if you're a giant company like this and you have this much power over the economy, who is your duty to?

SANDERS: Jasmine, you have three words?

GARSD: Well, I came up with a term...

SANDERS: OK.

GARSD: ...Generation of privacy...

O'LEARY: Ooh.

GARSD: ...Which, I've been covering. You know, as you were saying, Lizzie - can I call you that?

(LAUGHTER)

O'LEARY: Absolutely.

(LAUGHTER)

GARSD: As you were saying, Lizzie, I've been covering, you know, Facebook, Twitter, all these privacy scandals. And I think the same question arises, which is - what do these companies owe who? Do they owe the advertisers? Do they owe investors? Do they owe the public? Right?

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: And so last week, the Pew Research Center released this really interesting survey about how, in light of all these scandals with Facebook, the American public has really changed its relationship to social media and to Facebook specifically. And something I found super interesting about this survey is that young people - you know, there's a lot of hand-wringing about young people and social media.

SANDERS: Yeah. I love how you...

GARSD: Yeah.

SANDERS: ...(Laughter) delivered that.

(LAUGHTER)

GARSD: Young people are actually much more concerned and wary of their privacy than older people. And one of the things, for example, that the survey found is 44 percent of younger users have deleted the Facebook app from their phone in the last...

SANDERS: Forty four percent?

GARSD: ...Year. Yeah.

SANDERS: In the last year?

GARSD: Yes.

SANDERS: That is - if I were Facebook, I would be screaming in pain. That sounds like not what you want as a company.

GARSD: No, absolutely. I mean, a lot of younger kids are migrating to Snapchat, are migrating to...

SANDERS: Instagram.

GARSD: ...Instagram...

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: ...Which is also owned by Facebook. But it is interesting.

Also, 64 percent of younger users, in the last year, changed their privacy settings. So it - you know, maybe this younger generation is onto something with this concern for privacy. Now, a lot of it doesn't have to do with, you know, Russian interference campaigns and Iranian - I don't know that a lot of 16-year-olds are thinking about that.

O'LEARY: Are they paying attention to that? Yeah.

GARSD: No. But there is this interesting phenomenon, which is - if you think about Snapchat, if you think about Instagram stories, what you put on there only lasts so long.

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: So you don't have to worry about your boss...

SANDERS: Going back six months or a year.

GARSD: Right - and seeing that infamous trip to Vegas you took and all the pictures...

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: ...You know? So it is very interesting that there is - there seems to be, according to this survey, some kind of response to these scandals that have been happening.

SANDERS: I will say, though, in spite of, like, these troubling trend lines for Facebook in young folks, they're still making so much money.

GARSD: On advertising.

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: Advertising is still a huge revenue for Facebook. Even as other things, you know, falter...

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: ...In their quarterly reports, they do so well with advertising.

O'LEARY: I find this fascinating because, on the one hand, I like to think I'm a savvy consumer about privacy. On the other hand, Instagram is constantly serving me comfortable travel pants...

(LAUGHTER)

O'LEARY: ...Which is, like, the one thing I really want - like, pants that I can wear on a plane that...

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: ...Also kind of look cute when I get off.

SANDERS: Oh, yeah.

O'LEARY: And that feels great.

SANDERS: Do you buy them?

O'LEARY: I just bought some.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: I'm actually going to scroll Instagram now and tell you guys the first ad that I see.

GARSD: Oh...

O'LEARY: OK.

GARSD: Let's see then.

SANDERS: They want me to buy a $72 lightweight sweatshirt. I'm probably going to do it.

GARSD: (Laughter).

SANDERS: They know me. They know me.

O'LEARY: It's perfect for that slight LA chill.

SANDERS: That's right. You know, it gets chilly at night.

O'LEARY: Maybe just a little bit...

SANDERS: A little chilly, a little chilly.

We've got to go to a break. Coming up, I'm going to talk with one of my favorite sports nuts about what this Nike-Colin Kaepernick bad deal means for Colin and the NFL and all of us.

You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. We'll be right back.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")

SANDERS: We're back. You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, the show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sam Sanders here with two guests today - Lizzie O'Leary, public radio host and reporter, and Jasmine Garsd, tech reporter for NPR here in New York. Before we get to our next segment, I have a quick question for you. Football season has begun. Are you guys NFL fans?

O'LEARY: No.

GARSD: I live with one.

(LAUGHTER)

O'LEARY: Honestly, after all of the domestic violence allegations, I was just, like, I can't. No.

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: Uh-uh.

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: Sorry.

SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.

O'LEARY: I'm done.

SANDERS: I hear you. The season has started. The first game took place Thursday night. And there was a two-minute ad playing in the mini-games this season, and it comes from Nike. I have a little bit of it for you guys.

(SOUNDBITE OF AD)

COLIN KAEPERNICK: What nonbelievers fail to understand is that calling a dream crazy is not an insult. It's a compliment.

SANDERS: So this ad is just one way that Nike is honoring the 30th anniversary of their iconic slogan "Just Do It." And the voice that you heard there and the face behind this campaign is Colin Kaepernick. He's the face of Nike right now in a really interesting time. He's now a former NFL quarterback. He is currently suing the NFL. He says the league kept him off the field because of his activism because he took a knee for a while. Once this Nike ad came out, you saw some folks online burning Nike socks and shoes that they had presumably already bought, which is so weird to me, but whatever. I can't stop thinking about all this. This story has a lot of drama, a lot of layers. I wanted to talk about what it means for a big company like Nike to be woke, what it means for another big corporation like the NFL to silence dissent, what it means to have this storyline make the public get so up in arms about it on either side. And what, also, does it mean to have President Trump involved in all of this? So I called up Clinton Yates. He's a columnist for ESPN and a host on ESPN Radio. He knows much more about these things than I do. He was with me at NPR's New York studios.

Clinton Yates, friend of the show, hello. How are you?

CLINTON YATES: How are you, Sam? It's good to see you.

SANDERS: It's good to see you, too. So I brought you here to talk about Nike and the NFL. You know, this was the week that Nike unveiled Colin Kaepernick as the face and the voice of their Just Do It campaign. On Tuesday, before the video, there's a Nike image of Kaepernick with the words, believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything. And, you know, there were some headlines that said Nike was going out on a limb here. But I'm not sure that they are.

YATES: I don't think that they are. And if you know the history of the company in terms of when they first supported Michael Jordan, who is obviously the beacon of their brand on a lot of levels - he was - his shoes were banned by the NBA...

SANDERS: I didn't know that.

YATES: ...When they first started making them.

SANDERS: Why?

YATES: And they backed him. Because they were too flashy.

SANDERS: Oh, not because of, like, protests (laughter).

YATES: No, not because of protests. But they just thought that the shoes were too much.

SANDERS: Really?

YATES: And Nike said, well, that's exactly what we want.

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: How about we go out and make a ton? Now, obviously, Jordans as sneakers are the brand that they are.

SANDERS: Biggest thing ever.

YATES: But here's the other thing. Nike bought airtime on the actual NFL premiere to air the Colin Kaepernick ad, which is a massive checkmate...

SANDERS: Yes (laughter).

YATES: ...In the entire story of how this is all going down for the NFL, the league and Colin Kaepernick.

SANDERS: Yeah. So the jury is still out on what this means for Nike. But, like, do we know yet if it's hurt their bottom line? I did see that stock dropped a bit in the day after the Kaepernick ad first appeared. But also, there were some reports that, within 24 hours, there was some $43 million of earned media for Nike, mostly positive, from this ad campaign.

YATES: You've seen a lot of polls out there that say, if you ask certain generations, they say they don't support Nike as much depending on, you know, sort of where they are in the country. But this is a couple-fold to me. Number one, there's an invaluable amount of viral, basically, just brand advertising you're going to get out of this. Secondarily, I think a lot of people have a hard time really getting a grasp on how big Nike is. They're the globe's largest apparel and sneaker company, which means the U.S. is really only one part of what they're doing.

SANDERS: Come on.

YATES: So when other nations around the world look at the impact of a Colin Kaepernick, and they think about their relationship, frankly, to the U.S. in terms of the parallels between that and relationships of people of color...

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: ...It's not that hard to jump on board with Nike's message if you are coming from another part in the globe. And that's something that I think a lot of, frankly, white Americans of a certain place in the world don't understand about what this means.

SANDERS: Well, and this is also a situation where I think, once you look into who actually buys Nike in the States, this Kaepernick situation seems like a no-brainer. Nike consumers skew younger, skew more diverse and, inherently because of those factors, skew more liberal.

YATES: Yeah.

SANDERS: Like, a large portion of Nike consumers are already considering themselves to be woke. So for Nike to do this, it's like, well, duh.

YATES: Exactly. And I'm not going to go so far as to say that just because I happen to personally think that this is, A, a good marketing campaign and, B, a smart choice that I think that Nike is doing this out of the goodness of their own heart.

SANDERS: It's about money. They're not stupid.

YATES: They've had their own issues in terms of their production stuff, in terms of how they treat women in the workplace. We all know that Nike is not to be put up on a pedestal in terms of the best practices in all forms and regards. But I always say this about a lot of these things. You have to start somewhere. And for me, that's a lot about what this indicates - that they're willing to come out and put the NFL in the box, as they say. Yo. that's a pretty strong move...

SANDERS: That's a bold move.

YATES: ...From a company that cannot be ignored.

SANDERS: Can I express my cynicism about the whole Nike thing?

YATES: Sure.

SANDERS: So there's a whole conversation to be had about the commodification of wokeness (ph), which feels weird. But also - you mentioned this a little earlier - there's a class-action lawsuit against Nike from women employees there who allege that the company discriminates on the basis of gender, pays women less, ignored or mishandled sexual harassment. That is not at all woke. And the cynical me looks at this situation and says this is also a nice distractionary tactic. Am I right there?

YATES: Perhaps. I do not want to let Nike off the hook.

SANDERS: Yes.

YATES: But I will say two things about this. Number one, both things can be true to an extent simply due to the size of this company.

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: And secondarily, we're all undergoing a serious amount of recalibration of what we do...

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: ...In terms of how we treat women, specifically in workplaces.

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: You could point to any number of companies and see the same thing. And you should point to any number of companies.

SANDERS: And call it out.

YATES: And any number of companies should be called out, Nike included, for this.

SANDERS: Well, and then it's like, this is happening to a company that has made itself one of Serena Williams' biggest defenders. This is my bigger question - is Nike actually woke?

YATES: I do think so. And the reason I think so is because on the biggest issues that involve the things they do best, they try their hardest, in my personal opinion. However, you can't just say - just because they rolled out Colin Kaepernick or Serena Williams or LeBron James for a particular piece of advertising that they're not hugely problematic on the other end...

SANDERS: And that's - yeah.

YATES: ...There are this - it is a right-hand, left-hand situation.

SANDERS: You know, we've managed to have this entire conversation so far without mentioning the name Donald J. Trump, but let's talk about him for a bit...

YATES: OK.

SANDERS: ...Because he's in this, you know? He was calling out the NFL and Kaepernick for some time. And many folks believe that he led to the owners and the league leaders kind of tamping down these protests. But I remember in the first Super Bowl after Trump won, all of the commercials in the Super Bowl that are usually, like, you know, Clydesdale horses and, like, Dorito raps and stuff, they were immediately inherently more political. And it felt like it was a direct reaction to Donald Trump and his presidency. Is seeing what Nike's doing now with Kaepernick in part, also, the end result of President Trump infusing politics into seemingly everything that we say and do and talk about?

YATES: Perhaps. But I don't necessarily think it's only about the fact that it's Trump. And I don't necessarily think that - if you looked back at some of the other presidents in the most recent - specifically, Barack Obama - you couldn't say that that bent Nike's...

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: ...Stuff one way, as well.

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: You know what I mean?

SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.

YATES: If you think about the people that visited the White House, think about all the teams and athletes that have chosen not to go to the White House...

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: ...That have won championships, which is typically something you do - so yes. The president's influence on the situation, I think, is undeniable. He's made statements. And let's also not forget the president's specific relationship with the NFL. I don't necessarily know how many people know this. But many years ago, Donald Trump was part of a group that tried to start a rival league to the NFL, the USFL...

SANDERS: Yeah. And this was after he tried to buy a team himself in the NFL, and they kind of laughed him out of the room.

YATES: Absolutely. They said no. We're not going to have a guy like you amongst our ranks...

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: ...And you know how he feels, or at least how he has expressed he has felt, about people in his past who have not done him well.

SANDERS: Yeah, yeah. One storyline we should be watching in the league this season besides Mr. Colin?

YATES: Perhaps - and this is sort of unrelated, but it is interesting - the one of Tom Brady. And...

SANDERS: That guy.

YATES: ...I'll explain this, and I'll break this down.

SANDERS: OK...

YATES: Tom Brady has a trainer. This trainer, Alex Guerrero, is basically Tom Brady's best friend, who's got this belief, he said at one point, that he had some elixir that could cure cancer. He is, in some ways, a bit of a medicine man. And he has aligned himself directly with Tom Brady, a lot of Tom Brady's sort of foodstuff and all these things...

SANDERS: This is like a Gwyneth Paltrow Goop situation but for the NFL.

YATES: Yes. And it is also a bit of a - not quite "Lord Of The Flies." We're not quite there yet.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

YATES: But he has basically broken camp to the point that a lot of players don't even use the medical staff of the team. They go to this dude's place...

SANDERS: Is he an M.D.?

YATES: ...Right across the street. Exactly.

SANDERS: OK.

YATES: And he has found a way to infiltrate an actual NFL team's medical chain of command.

SANDERS: Tom Brady out here on Herbalife.

YATES: Basically.

SANDERS: Tom Brady out here on Herbalife.

YATES: I mean, that's - you know? That's - and that's serious stuff...

SANDERS: Yes.

YATES: ...When you're talking about a league that has its own issues in terms of how it reports the health scenarios of the players that not only do play in the league but used to play in the league, as well.

SANDERS: Yeah.

YATES: If football players don't feel they can trust the league's own doctors, and they're going to these kind of guys...

SANDERS: Something's up.

YATES: ...In order to get healed, that doesn't look good for anybody. And for the long-term health - no pun intended - of the league, that's a bad situation.

SANDERS: Yeah.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")

SANDERS: If we want to keep up with Clinton and all of this takes on the NFL over the course of the season, how should they find you? Where can they follow you?

YATES: I'm @clintonyates on Twitter - @theundefeated is where I am a columnist, as well. I do my best to inform the public.

SANDERS: Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

YATES: Anytime, Sam.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")

SANDERS: Thanks again to Clinton Yates. I am back here with Lizzie and Jasmine in the studio. Y'all, another thing that is crazy about this whole story is you have Nike with this ad with Kaepernick. But at the same time, Nike has a contract with the NFL to make their jerseys through 2028. And now you also have Donald Trump, who's been in all of this, insulting Nike. But we know that, for years, Nike rented space in Trump Tower, New York.

GARSD: Yeah. I mean, I also can see the flipside of wanting to know that the company that you are purchasing in and investing in takes a certain stance. I mean, there's also been a history of companies playing roles during fascism - you know? - during the war. The - sorry. I sound like I'm 90.

SANDERS: (Laughter) The war.

GARSD: During the war. But, you know, the - I think I understand the impulse to say, I want to know that, in a very troubled time, my company stands for something that I also believe in. But I do think there's something also problematic about the selling, the commodification...

SANDERS: Of wokeness.

GARSD: ...Of wokeness.

O'LEARY: Yeah. Woke marketing. It's...

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: You know, there's also this question. Like, OK, well, if you want a woke company, how far does that go for you, consumer? Is that, I want to see how your goods are produced? I want to see your entire supply chain?

GARSD: Right.

O'LEARY: I want...

SANDERS: Your diversity numbers.

O'LEARY: Your diversity numbers. I want to see that all broken down. Or are you willing to - like, that ad makes me feel good. I'm going to go buy some shoes...

GARSD: right. Are you also...

SANDERS: Exactly.

GARSD: Are you woke about where - the shops where...

SANDERS: Yeah.

GARSD: ...These shoes are being produced in Asia?

SANDERS: Exactly. Anyways, thanks again to Clinton Yates, columnist for ESPN's The Undefeated. Listeners, time for a break. When we come back, my favorite game - Who Said That? You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")

SANDERS: We're back. You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Sam Sanders here with two guests today. Jasmine Garsd covers tech for NPR - and Lizzie O'Leary, public radio host and reporter extraordinaire.

O'LEARY: Whoa. Thanks, dude.

SANDERS: With a really cute dog.

O'LEARY: She's so cute.

SANDERS: Give your dog a shoutout.

O'LEARY: Her name is Mara (ph). And she's from Brooklyn Animal Rescue. And she's originally from Vidalia, Ga.

SANDERS: I didn't know that. Wow.

GARSD: That's a lot to know about your pup.

O'LEARY: Well - so super weird. My fiance is also from Vidalia, Ga. I got them separately.

(LAUGHTER)

O'LEARY: I got her first.

SANDERS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. All right. Now it's time for my favorite game, Who Said That.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ATLANTA")

KANDI BURRUSS: Who had been saying that?

PORSHA WILLIAMS: Who said that?

KENYA MOORE: Who said that?

SANDERS: You guys, this game - you know it. It's very simple. I share a quote from the week. You have to guess who said that or at least get the story I'm referring to. I'm not a stickler. I'm not Alex Trebek. The winner gets nothing, except for some bragging rights. How do you feel about this?

GARSD: Let's do it. Let's go for it.

SANDERS: Lizzie?

O'LEARY: I'm scared.

SANDERS: I believe in you. First quote. You guys ready?

GARSD: Yes.

O'LEARY: Yeah.

SANDERS: Quote, "So happy I'm up top. It's a double-decker plane 380."

GARSD: Oh, I know who that was.

SANDERS: Just say it.

O'LEARY: It's Vanilla Ice. It's Vanilla Ice.

GARSD: It's Vanilla Ice.

(SOUNDBITE OF MICROSOFT'S "TADA")

SANDERS: I love how both of you were like, I know. I know. I know.

GARSD: Well, I was looking for a button.

SANDERS: There's no buzzer. I'm sorry.

GARSD: Doesn't, like, every apocalypse movie start with a plane? Like, a - infected plane.

SANDERS: Someone sick on a plane.

GARSD: And then, like, a C-list artist on that plane. Like, also, you're getting quarantined with Vanilla Ice.

SANDERS: Which sounds fine.

O'LEARY: (Laughter).

GARSD: Does it?

SANDERS: We should back up. So there was a flight, Emirates flight from Dubai that was quarantined at JFK this week. Vanilla Ice, the rapper and now reality show host, happened to be on that plane. And he was tweeting about the ordeal. This plane is a double-decker. And apparently on the bottom deck, people were getting flu-like symptoms - coughing, respiratory stuff, fevers. At least 10 people went to the hospital with flu-like symptoms - like vomiting, coughing and fever.

So Mr. Ice himself said it was, quote, "chaos." He wrote, I just landed from Dubai. And now there is, like, tons of ambulances and fire trucks and police all over the place.

O'LEARY: That's an expensive ticket.

GARSD: It is.

SANDERS: He's a TV mogul. Vanilla Ice has his own reality show now. It's called "The Vanilla Ice Project" on the DIY Network.

GARSD: So he's not living off of "Ice Ice Baby."

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: No, I feel like if there's, like, another, like, apocalyptic event, Vanilla Ice will survive. He's the Cher of his day.

GARSD: Yeah. Or maybe he's, like, the hero of this apocalypse.

SANDERS: Maybe he saves us all.

GARSD: Maybe.

SANDERS: Maybe he saves the plane from crashing because he's like, no, probably not.

GARSD: Like, into the cockpit. I've got this.

SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to give that point to either of you because I think you both knew it.

O'LEARY: Split it.

SANDERS: Yes - 0.5 points for each.

GARSD: OK.

SANDERS: OK. Next quote. Ready? "People have been selling snake oil for a long time. This is just another type of snake oil." Who's it about? Go. Say it.

GARSD: Gwyneth Paltrow.

SANDERS: Yes.

(SOUNDBITE OF MICROSOFT'S "TADA")

O'LEARY: When did she say that? Is this about the Goop?

SANDERS: This is about Goop.

GARSD: She got fined.

SANDERS: Yes, for the...

O'LEARY: For the vagina...

GARSD: For the article.

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: Can I say vagina?

SANDERS: You just did. You can say it.

O'LEARY: The jade eggs...

SANDERS: Yeah.

O'LEARY: ...That you're supposed to, you know...

GARSD: A jade egg. It's an egg. It's made of a rock.

GARSD: Yeah.

GARSD: And you put it...

SANDERS: (Laughter).

GARSD: Why?

SANDERS: (Laughter) How did you not know about this?

GARSD: I mean, I'm not - like, my Google Alerts doesn't include jade eggs, vagina.

SANDERS: And Gwyneth Paltrow. Anyway, Gwyneth Paltrow's business Goop is this health and wellness business that a lot of folks say is full of pseudoscience. This week, we came to find out that she has agreed - her and Goop have agreed to pay out $145,000 for misleading customers about the health benefits of these vaginal eggs that are made out of jade and rose quartz.

The site promised the eggs would regulate periods, balance hormones. They also promised that some other item called Inner Judge Flower Essence Blend could help prevent depression. The California Food, Drug and Medical Device Task Force said those claims were unsubstantiated. Obvi.

GARSD: Well, right. So we've been having this conversation about the responsibility of companies, right?

SANDERS: Yeah, whose duty?

GARSD: But isn't there a responsibility of a consumer, too? Like...

O'LEARY: Yes.

GARSD: ...If someone is, like, hey...

SANDERS: Here's an egg.

GARSD: Here's an egg. You know where to put it. Like...

SANDERS: (Laughter).

GARSD: But you should be like, no.

O'LEARY: That seems like not a great idea.

GARSD: No, thank you.

SANDERS: Anyways, Lizzie has 1.5 points. Jasmine has 0.5 points.

GARSD: Oh.

SANDERS: It's OK. Next quote. Ready? "You also apparently like to eat pasta with ketchup, but nobody is perfect." This came out of Capitol Hill.

O'LEARY: Kavanaugh.

(SOUNDBITE OF MICROSOFT'S "TADA")

SANDERS: Yes.

GARSD: Did he say that?

SANDERS: Someone told him that. So...

GARSD: He likes pasta...

JASMINE GARSD AND LIZZIE O'LEARY, BYLINE: With ketchup?

SANDERS: Do I hear judgment in the voices right now?

O'LEARY: Yeah.

GARSD: This is unacceptable.

SANDERS: So Senator Orrin Hatch, Republican from Utah - during Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings this week, he brought up that Brett Kavanaugh apparently is so averse to spice or intense spicy flavors that he eats his pasta sometimes with ketchup.

GARSD: OK. There's non-spicy tomato sauce.

SANDERS: Well, also ragu, apparently, he likes, but, like, ketchup, too. How do we feel about that?

O'LEARY: Sad.

GARSD: Speechless.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

O'LEARY: Like, sad.

SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.

GARSD: Speechless.

O'LEARY: Missing out on so much.

SANDERS: Yeah. Esquire reported that we first learned about Kavanaugh's ketchup proclivity through an old law school acquaintance who told the Yale Daily News that, back in the day, Kavanaugh was a, quote, "bland eater who couldn't stomach anything spicier than a ragu." And he liked ketchup on his spaghetti.

GARSD: He's a gastronomic snitch.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

O'LEARY: Wow.

SANDERS: It is technically a tomato sauce.

GARSD: Is it?

SANDERS: (Laughter) I think so.

O'LEARY: Ew.

GARSD: Listen. Ketchup has a place, OK?

SANDERS: What is the place of ketchup?

GARSD: French fries, hamburgers...

O'LEARY: Maybe a hotdog.

GARSD: Maybe a hotdog.

SANDERS: Broccoli. I'm kidding.

O'LEARY: Oh, OK.

SANDERS: I don't do that. I don't do that. All right. With that, Who Said That is complete. And I realize, you guys, I set us up for a tie.

GARSD: Yes, but I still didn't win.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Someone's in a dour mood.

O'LEARY: We both won.

SANDERS: Everybody wins. Ketchup wins. Ketchup always wins. Now it's time to end the show as we always do. Every week, we ask our listeners to share with us the best thing that happened to them all week. We encourage folks to brag. Let's take a listen.

DANIELLE: Hi, Sam. This is Danielle (ph) calling from Lancaster, Pa. And the best part of my week was sending my son off to his first day of kindergarten. He did great. And I didn't cry. Well, not yet anyway.

MARY: Hi, Sam. This is Mary (ph) from Iowa. The best thing that happened to me this week is I dropped off my son for his freshman year at Luther College in Decorah, Iowa - go Norse - where I attended and graduated from 36 years ago.

DEREK: The best thing that happened to me this week is I started officially training for my first marathon.

AMY: I fulfilled an eight-year-long dream of owning my own kayak.

FAYE: I recently started a great, new job with full benefits for the first time in my life.

LEAH: Hi, Sam. This is Leah (ph) from Portland, Ore.

SID: And this is Sid (ph).

LEAH: And right now we are standing at the top of Mount Howard in the Wallowa mountain chain. And the best thing about our week is definitely this spectacular view.

SID: And we saw a fox.

LEAH: And we saw a fox.

KRIS: Hi, Sam. This is Kris (ph) in Two Rivers, Alaska. The best thing that happened to me this week is that my wife and I attended my green card interview in Anchorage, 400 miles south of here. And it went well. And my green card was approved. And I'm waiting for it.

GRACE: Hey, Sam. This is Grace (ph) from Murphy, N.C. And the best thing that happened to me all week was finding out that my dad, who was diagnosed with bladder cancer last week and had to be rushed into surgery this week, got his pathology report back that says that the cancer, though very aggressive, had not grown into any of his muscle, which was the best possible news we can hope for. So with just some general follow-up care and keeping an eye on it, he should be good to go for a long time. And that was the best, best news I could have hoped for. Thanks. Have a great week.

FAYE: I hope your week is this awesome. Thanks.

LEAH: Thanks, Sam. We love the show.

DEREK: Thanks, Sam. Love your show. Bye.

SANDERS: That's good news. I love it so much.

O'LEARY: So nice.

SANDERS: Many thanks to all the voices you heard there - Danielle, Mary, Derek (ph), Amy (ph), Faye (ph), Leah and Sid, Kris and Grace. Glad your dad's doing well, Grace. Keep those best things coming in. We listen to all these that come in. They cheer my heart. You can share your best thing at any point throughout any week. Just email me a sound file to samsanders@npr.org - samsanders@npr.org. With that, many thanks to two of the best things in my week, Lizzie and Jasmine, my great, great guests. Jasmine Garsd covers tech for NPR. Lizzie O'Leary is a public radio host and reporter extraordinaire.

GARSD: Thank you.

O'LEARY: Thank you.

SANDERS: And Fleetwood Mac is going to take us home.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DREAMS")

STEVIE NICKS: (Singing) Oh, thunder only happens when it's raining.

SANDERS: This week, the show was produced by Brent Baughman and Anjuli Sastry. Kumari Devarajan helped us out as well. Also, many, many thanks to producer Darius Rafieyan for his help with the show this week. Our editor is Jordana Hochman. And our big boss is NPR's VP of programming, Anya Grundmann.

Listeners, refresh your feed Tuesday morning for my chat with Lauren Miller Rogen. She just directed her first feature film. It's called "Like Father." And besides starring Kristen Bell and Kelsey Grammer, this movie takes place on an actual cruise ship during an actual cruise. It's really interesting. We talk about that. We talk about the state of women in film. And we talk about what it's been like for Lauren to cope with her mother's early-onset Alzheimer's. Check for that on Tuesday. All right. Until then, thanks for listening. I'm Sam Sanders. Talk soon.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DREAMS")

NICKS: (Singing) You will know. Oh, you'll know.

Copyright © 2018 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.