Transgender Baritone Lucia Lucas Makes Opera History As Don Giovanni : Deceptive Cadence In her U.S. debut as Don Giovanni, Lucia Lucas became the first known trans woman to sing a principal role on an American opera stage.
NPR logo

'They Know That I'm The Real Deal': Transgender Baritone Makes Opera History

  • Download
  • <iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/727846231/728387139" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player">
  • Transcript
'They Know That I'm The Real Deal': Transgender Baritone Makes Opera History

'They Know That I'm The Real Deal': Transgender Baritone Makes Opera History

  • Download
  • <iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/727846231/728387139" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player">
  • Transcript

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

In Tulsa, Okla., earlier this month, the opera singer Lucia Lucas made history.

(SOUNDBITE OF OPERA, "DON GIOVANNI")

LUCIA LUCAS: (As Don Giovanni, singing in Italian).

SHAPIRO: This is a recording of Lucas rehearsing for her American debut. At Tulsa Opera, she played the title role in the Mozart opera, "Don Giovanni." The character is a macho womanizer. Lucia Lucas is a transgender woman. Her voice is a baritone, so the roles she performs on stage are primarily men. She is the first known trans person to play a principal role in an opera on a U.S. stage. She knew that she was a woman from a young age. She only discovered her passion for singing opera in college.

So when I spoke with her recently, I asked whether she was ever afraid of those two dreams getting in the way of each other - living openly as a woman and making a life in opera, with a masculine, baritone voice.

LUCAS: Absolutely (laughter). It wasn't until I came out that I tried to figure out how it all would work.

SHAPIRO: Right.

LUCAS: (Laughter) So no, I never thought I could do both.

SHAPIRO: So what was your lightbulb moment that you could sing opera with the voice that you have, as a transgender woman, playing male roles?

LUCAS: Well, I think the key was, the week after I came out, I had three or four performances, and I was concerned that it would be too uncomfortable for me to present as a man on stage. But I decided to just do it. And so I did the next week of performances, and I said at the end of that week, oh, I can do this; this is fine. As long as I don't have to pretend offstage, I can pretend onstage; that's fine.

SHAPIRO: You not only play male roles, but the specific roles that you have sung have been these archetypes of masculinity. I mean, from Don Giovanni, who is this womanizer who you just played at Tulsa Opera, to Wotan in Wagner's ring cycle. Here's a clip of you singing an aria from "Das Rheingold."

(SOUNDBITE OF OPERA, "DAS RHEINGOLD")

LUCAS: (As Wotan, singing in German).

SHAPIRO: What's it like as a woman to embody these most kind of stereotypical, cliche archetypes of masculinity?

LUCAS: There's two sides of it. One is my own person is so far away from these characters that I play. I know that when I get off the stage, whatever I do onstage is not my own personality offstage.

SHAPIRO: Right, people who play murderers on stage or screen don't get asked, when they leave the stage, whether they actually kill people in real life.

(LAUGHTER)

LUCAS: Yeah. You don't necessarily have to have all of the experience of your characters in order to portray them. But the second thing is, in cases especially of fathers, because I play a lot of fathers, I think I am able to show a more vulnerable side. Like, in Wotan, putting Brunnhilde on the rock. I think Wotans don't normally let that hit them emotionally, that this is the last time they're going to see Brunnhilde. And I think that letting that really hit you emotionally can be really powerful.

SHAPIRO: You know, the conductor Marin Alsop used to fight against being described as a woman conductor, rather than just a conductor. Are you worried that, similarly, you will be identified as a transgender singer, rather than just an opera singer?

LUCAS: Not at all. When people hear me, they know that I'm the real deal. Doesn't matter.

SHAPIRO: (Laughter) That is such a good answer. It's like, judge me on my merits.

LUCAS: Look - I've been singing opera my entire adult life. I've been singing opera professionally for the last 10 years as my only source of income. So what else do you want, really?

SHAPIRO: Yeah. Let's listen to a little bit more of you in performance. This is from the opera "Falstaff." You're singing the role of Ford.

(SOUNDBITE OF OPERA, "FALSTAFF")

LUCAS: (As Ford, singing in Italian).

SHAPIRO: Is it more exciting or lonely to be the first and most prominent person in this position, or does it just feel like the life you're living, you know, whatever that means?

LUCAS: I mean, it's the same life that I was living before. It's - being trans doesn't have much to do with my daily life.

SHAPIRO: Yeah.

LUCAS: So I don't think about being trans; my wife doesn't think about me being trans. We're always consistently working on our careers, trying to make ourselves better. And tons of travel. And that doesn't have anything to do with me being trans.

SHAPIRO: Right, right.

LUCAS: It just has to do with my opera career. I think my opera career has made my life way more hectic than me being trans.

SHAPIRO: Let's go out on a little more music. We have a recording of you singing an aria from Wagner's "Flying Dutchman." Lucia Lucas, thanks so much for talking with us.

LUCAS: Thank you for having me.

(SOUNDBITE OF OPERA, "THE FLYING DUTCHMAN")

LUCAS: (As The Dutchman, singing in German).

[POST-BROADCAST CORRECTION: In the audio of this story, we incorrectly say Lucia Lucas is the first known trans person to play a principal role in an opera on a U.S. stage. While she is the first known trans woman to do so, trans male opera singer Adrian Angelico performed in the U.S. in 2017.]

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.