TONY COX, host:
Now, onto our bloggers' roundtable and some of the hot topics they're talking about online. Is the GOP headed for a hip-hop makeover? Plus, our bloggers weigh in on the reported Rihanna/Chris Brown altercation and the chatter over Disney's first black animated princess. With us, Brandon Whitney of the blog Homeland Colors; he also writes about politics for the Web sites Black Man in America and My Voice D.C.; Marc Lamont Hill, a professor of American studies at Temple University; he blogs at marclamonthill.com and at The Root; and Carmen Van Kerckhove; she blogs at Racialicious and heads the anti-racism-training company, New Demographic. Hello, everybody.
Mr. BRANDON WHITNEY (Blogger, HomelandColors.blogspot.com): How are you doing?
Ms. CARMEN VAN KERCKHOVE (Blogger, Racialicious.com; President, New Demographic): Hi there.
COX: I'm fine.
Dr. MARC LAMONT HILL (American Studies, Temple University; Blogger, marclamonthill.com, TheRoot.com): Hey, good to be here.
COX: Thank you. Let's talk about Michael Steele and the Republican Party first. The newly elected GOP chairman is planning a public-relations campaign to attract younger voters, he says, especially African-Americans and Hispanics. Now, this group will be targeted by applying, according to Steele, the GOP's principles to, quote, "urban/suburban hip-hop settings," so...
(Soundbite of laughter)
COX: What's been the reaction, Marc Lamont Hill, to both Steele's chairmanship and to his ideas for luring young black and brown voters to the party?
Dr. HILL: Well, I think there's some excitement - not from people on the left or from black people, but certainly, people on the right - there's some excitement about Steele's chairmanship because they feel that it sort of moves the GOP into a new generation of leadership to some extent. That's just a sort of very narrow idea of what it means to have new leadership. It becomes almost like a racial subtext, where they're saying, really, we just have a black guy in front, too, and so, that can help us. The hip-hop thing is a little curious to me, because I think what Michael Steele misses is that the biggest - one of biggest problems of the GOP in this election has not been the fact it needed a hip-hop makeover as much as they needed a different set of issues to confront. This generation of people aren't as absorbed with the so-called moral issues around gay marriage and abortion and stem cells. Those things aren't galvanizing a generation of voters to vote against their own economic interests the way they have in the '80s. So, I think Michael Steele needs to focus on these - on some new issues and not so much on a hip-hop makeover.
COX: When you talk about, Carmen, about hip-hop and the GOP, is that squeezing a round peg into a square hole or vice versa?
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: You know, it's so tempting to caricature...
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Folks like Michael Steele as sort of out-of-touch, crotchety players. But it - you know, his - some of those quotes from that interview were really, really embarrassing. And I know that we've been discussing it on Racialicious, and there is just a general sense of amusement. But you know, I mean, clearly, the GOP does need to do a better job of reaching out to people of color. But at the same time, I have to feel like people of color who lean conservative really deserve, you know, better spokespeople than folks like Michael Steele or Alan Keyes.
COX: Well, Brandon, let's look at it from another perspective. What should they do? What can they do to try to expand the party and reach into the base?
Mr. WHITNEY: Well, be honest; just give honest approaches. You don't have to put spinners on your car to talk to young people of color; you just need to talk to them honestly and sincerely. And hip-hop, what does that even mean? We're going to use the hip-hop - we're going to touch the hip-hop demographic or we're doing it in a hip-hop - what does that even mean? I mean, he's an old black dude. He probably listens to the Chi-Lites and stuff like that...
(Soundbite of laughter)
COX: Now, wait a minute. Now, Chi-Lites, they were pretty good.
Mr. WHITNEY: There's nothing wrong with them...
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. WHITNEY: But I'm just - I mean, he's not hip-hop.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. WHITNEY: I mean, he's an old - and you don't have to pretend that you are; you just have to be honest, and the GOP needs to do that. And there are a lot of - if we're honest about it, there are a lot of principles in the hip-hop generation that they could probably act latch onto in terms of entrepreneurship and things of that nature. But just be honest; don't try so hard. It's corny.
COX: All right.
(Soundbite of laughter)
COX: And I do like the Chi-Lites.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: It's off the hook.
COX: I do like the Chi-Lites. All right.
(Soundbite of laughter)
COX: We spoke of Bobby Jindal in our earlier segment. Just briefly, Marc, how do you think his appearance resonated with this target group last night, including immigrants?
Dr. HILL: Well, I think Bobby Jindal, in many ways, is a much better sort of representation of what new-school GOP leadership should be, even than Michael Steele. You know, the one piece about the hip-hop piece, just to connect it, is that, you know, Michael Steele is right that you need to need to make being Republican cool again, needs to be hip again. And what Bobby Jindal represents is fresh, young leadership that sticks to the GOP values, even if we ultimately disagree with them, but has a fresh look. I think what he said last night, even though I disagree with almost all of it, was - I think resonated with the party's base. I'm not sure it'll reach out to immigrants, but it'll certainly resonate with the party's base, in the sense that they're pledging their allegiance to saying - they're saying we're part of the loyal opposition and we're willing to work with the president, but we want to push back against things like the stimulus bill. I think his presentation was great. And if I were a GOP honcho, I'd be very happy with what Bobby Jindal did last night.
COX: Carmen, how do you feel? Because as I was watching him, I was reminded of how Barack Obama, some years ago, got on a national stage and delivered, you know, a great speech that got people to look at him in new ways. Do you think Bobby Jindal was able to do that with his remarks last night?
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Well, from the reactions I've seen, not quite. Seems like the reactions range from lukewarm to really just bad reviews. So, I do think that clearly the GOP is trying different things and we'll ultimately just see what sticks.
COX: All right. Let's move on to another GOP politico who's been making news this weekend, more news on the Republican front via the person, Alan Keyes; you remember him. He ran for president twice in 1996 and 2000. He also ran unsuccessfully for the Senate a few times, most recently against Barack Obama. And he's been saying all sorts of things since Obama's election, including last week releasing a video, saying that he refuses to acknowledge the validity of Obama's inauguration.
(Soundbite of video)
Mr. ALAN KEYES (Political Activist): Obama is a radical communist, and I think it's becoming clear. That's what I told people in Illinois, and now, everybody realizes it's true. He is going to destroy this country. And we're either going to stop him or the United States of America is going to cease to exist.
COX: So, Brandon, you're blogging about this. Does anyone take Alan Keyes and his comments seriously?
Mr. WHITNEY: You know what? Some people probably do, which is unfortunate. The first thing about Alan Keyes is he's proof that black people don't just vote for somebody because they're black. So, we can kind of throw that stereotype and lie out of the door. Second of all, what does he mean by, he must be stopped? I don't see where he's going with that, because Barack Obama was elected president; you can't stop him until the next election. So, what does he mean by that? But I think we also have to kind of discredit what he was saying. First off, communism is socialism established by violence. So, since he was elected, first off, there's no way he can be a radical communist. Second of all, I mean, he's not a socialist. But the thing about Alan Keyes is - I think his problem is that - it's got to hurt if you are a radical, right-wing Republican and you're black, and you took a lot of flack to be that, and you felt like you probably had to give away a lot of what people see as African-American culture to get to that point. And then somebody who didn't have to sell off their - portions of their culture became president? It's got to sting a little bit, and I feel like a lot of that vitriol coming from - is a little bit of jealousy.
COX: Well, in the United States, Marc, the First Amendment guarantees Alan Keyes and anyone else the right to say whatever they like. But is this kind of criticism inappropriate? Does it go too far?
Dr. HILL: Is it inappropriate? Does it go too - I mean, of course, it goes too far. Is it inappropriate? No, I mean, if anything, I think it just places a spotlight on this sort of right-wing fringe body of people who don't, you know, operate in the realm of reality, you know? Every day I get email; I mean, literally, every day, I get 50 emails from people - sometimes it's the same 20 people and then 30 new ones- who would tell me that Barack Obama is really a secret communist; he's still a covert Muslim terrorist. I mean, I get emails every day, and it's partly because I work at Fox News...
(Soundbite of laughter)
Dr. HILL: And it's partly because, you know, people just kind of circulate that stuff. And there's a small body of people that believe that, and for the next four years, you will see that. You will see a fringe group of people, but I don't think they matter that much, and in fact, I think if anything, it makes the GOP look bad. And Alan Keyes isn't really in the GOP anymore; I mean, he's really moved even to the independents space...
COX: That's true.
Dr. HILL: You know, but even still, he identifies with those principles and those values, and as such, it doesn't make Obama look bad; it makes the right look bad, because they get, you know, sort of lumped into this group of nuts.
COX: Let me circle...
Mr. WHITNEY: Yeah, and Hawaii has been a state for 60 years, for all of those who aren't sure if it's a state or not.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. WHITNEY: So, being born there still makes you a citizen.
COX: Let me circle back really briefly to Michael Steele before we go on to our next topic. Last week, a firestorm erupted over an offensive cartoon in the New York Post that equated a monkey with the president of the United States. The paper apologized. The GOP chairperson was conspicuously silent on that controversy. Now, many are asking why Michael Steele hasn't said anything about Alan Keyes' comments. What are we to make of this, if anything, Carmen?
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Well, I'm not particularly surprised that he's been silent. But then, I think it also begs the question, do we really expect Michael Steele to respond to anything that happens to any black person?
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: I'm not really sure that that's a realistic expectation for his kind of role, and particularly when it comes to the New York Post, I mean, the New York Post is unabashedly right-leaning. So, it doesn't surprise me that Michael Steele wouldn't join in this chorus of criticism, and you know, we should add that, you know, not all of the criticism has been unanimous; not everybody feels that the cartoon is racist. I mean, I certainly do, but not everybody does.
COX: No, everybody does not. Let's move on to another topic completely unrelated to this. Last week, photos of a battered and bruised Rihanna were splashed all over various Web sites, people raising the question of whether or not news outlets should have even published them, but let's talk about something different. She has now become the face of domestic abuse, like it or not. And there are rumors floating that she may not press charges against Chris Brown for the alleged attack. Marc, does Rihanna, as a public figure, have a responsibility to press charges against her alleged attacker?
Dr. HILL: I wouldn't go so far as to tell her that - say that she has a responsibility because she's a celebrity. I think anyone who is in that circumstance has the right to press charges and, indeed, should press charges. I think they have every right to do that and they should. I would be disappointed if she did not because of the message that it would send to the broader, sort of, public sphere. So, it would concern me if she did not. But I don't want to place that burden exclusively on this, you know, 21-year-old girl's shoulders because she's a celebrity. She's in an abusive relationship, and abusive relationships often produce people who are unwilling - who love the person they're with so much that they're operating against their own interests. She's a case study in this, not - so, I don't want to, you know, heap upon her any extraordinary burden. I would just say, really fast, the thing that's concerned me the most, though, has been this public response to this, sort of - there's been a lot of protectionism around Chris Brown, and there's been a lot of conversation - when it first came out, there were rumors that she had given him an STD. And people said, oh, well, then that explains it, as if that is a reasonable excuse for domestic violence. And so, I've heard too much justification in the blogosphere and in the broader public sphere around domestic violence to make me comfortable with this circumstance.
COX: We're going to explore this even further with Judge Lynn Toler in an upcoming segment later in this broadcast. But for now, Brandon, what message do you think it sends if Rihanna chooses not to press charges?
Mr. WHITNEY: You know, I'm not sure what message it sends, but it wouldn't be atypical of what happens. I mean, in the United States, women are beaten and raped all the time, and it's something we never pay attention to. It happens constantly. I can name numerous occasions where I viewed and had to call the cops. So, it's something we as a country need to deal with. It's not even just racial or cultural; this is a problem in the United States. And women feel as if they've done something wrong when they're beaten or raped, and they shouldn't feel that way, but they do, and that's not necessarily their fault. That's our fault as a culture for putting a stigma on people who are abused. So, I think it wouldn't be atypical. I think it sends a message, hopefully, that there's more that we need to do to fix this type of situation.
COX: Well, Carmen, rap music has been criticized for being violent and for its misogynistic lyrics. Neither Rihanna nor Chris Brown are rap artists, but they are in the hip-hop community. What impact, if any, do you see that photo having on - impact - not just the photo, but the incident itself - having on hip-hop?
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Well, I think certainly hip-hop has its own set of problems when it comes to gender issues. But you know, I have to agree with Marc that one of the most shocking themes that you've seen out of the public reaction is this sense of, well, what did she do to deserve this? And then, you know, when this rumor about the STD came along, there was the sense that, oh, well, that explains it. And so, you know, again, hip-hop definitely has demeaned women, but at the same time, it's a reflection of some of the bigger problems throughout society. I mean, domestic violence, domestic abuse, is a massive, massive problem, and you know, the culture of victim-blaming really extends beyond the world of hip-hop.
COX: Well, we'll have to keep our eyes on it to see how this develops. I appreciate all three of you coming on. A good conversation today, thank you.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Thank you.
Dr. HILL: Thanks.
Mr. WHITNEY: Thanks a lot.
COX: We've been talking with Carmen Van Kerckhove, who blogs at Racialicious; she was at our New York studios; Brandon Whitney of the blog Homeland Colors; he joined us from our headquarters in Washington, D.C.; and Marc Lamont Hill, who teaches American studies at Temple University; he blogs at MarcLamontHill.com as well as The Root. You can find links to their blog as well as to our blog at nprnewsandnotes.org.
Copyright © 2009 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.