MICHEL MARTIN, host:
I'm Michel Martin, and this is TELL ME MORE from NPR News. Coming up in Faith Matters: President Obama says he wants to move past the shouting on the country's most divisive issues. A group of pro-life leaders asked for and got a meeting at the White House to start that conversation. We'll hear from one of the people at the table in a few minutes. But first, it's time for our weekly political chat. We've been checking it with mayors and governors across the country to find out how they are responding to the global economic crisis.
Today, we go to New York, the home of Wall Street, the financial capital of the United States. While lawmakers here in Washington and people across the country are vilifying Wall Street for its role in the economic crisis, New York Governor David Paterson has the balance competing perspectives. His constituents include both those who are being blamed for the fallout, as well as those who are suffering because of it. To talk more about this and other issues, Governor David Paterson joins us on the line from Albany, the state capital of New York. Governor, thanks so much for joining us.
Governor DAVID PATERSON (New York State): Thank you for having me, Michel.
MARTIN: Before we get into the economic issues, I wanted to ask about an issue that made headlines this week. You and state lawmakers reached an agreement to strike down many of state's strict 1970s-era drug laws. The agreement would abolish the mandatory minimum prison sentences for low-level drug felons. People call these the Rockefeller drug laws. Why do you believe this change is necessary?
Gov. PATERSON: Well, I think you've scooped us, Michel. We're actually going to announce this agreement 11 o'clock this morning. But what I'll tell you is that since 1973, New York has had the harshest drug laws in the country, and they have simply not worked. The number of people in prison grew from about 12,000 in 1973 to over 70,000 - a lot of low level, non-violent drug offenders who need treatment for their addictions. And our new law is going to give them the treatment they need and make sure that those who sell drugs that create misery for others get the punishment they deserve.
MARTIN: Is the main motivation for change the cost, it's just so expensive to keep locking up so many people? Or is it bad policies, that the idea that this is just bad policy, doesn't really fix the problem?
Gov. PATERSON: In these economic times, obviously, anything that saves money is preferred, but we're not going to save money at the risk of public safety. These are people who, for the most part, are non-violent, who are addicted, they need treatment. And I think one of the changes in the treatment modality that has helped us - and hopefully pass these laws - is the fact that treatment is now working, where it - the amounts of recidivism towards drug abuses some years ago was pretty high. So there was no real confidence that treatment would actually work. But the - one of our local not-for-profit research organizations was able to show us that where we use drug courts and we have a passage where people go into rehabilitation, that only 13 percent of these people are repeat offenders, where when they go through the regular process, it's 50 percent in the first three years. So the staggering effectiveness of treatment programs in the past few years laid the foundation for the laws that we - that we will hopefully pass in the next week.
MARTIN: And a final question on this point, before we move on to economy: The district attorneys, who it has to be said, have tremendous power to determine ultimate sentences through how they choose to charge crimes, say that these laws have actually lowered crime. They have improved public safety. One of the great successes in New York in recent decades has been the tremendous lowering of the crime rate there. What do you say to that? They say they have improved public safety.
Gov. PATERSON: Well, I think that crime has been down in this state for 17 years in a row, and all aspects of law enforcement can be congratulated for that. But the number of people sitting in our institutions from low level drug offences serving incredibly long periods of time is something that has, on a bipartisan level, offended a lot of people. And what we are - have been able to work out with the district attorneys, and we had their input very much so in our task force on this issue, is the fact that for first offenders, we will really try to get them right into treatment. For repeat offenders, they will plead guilty to the charge that the - we will then give discretion to the judges to make sure that they get into treatment facilities.
And I think that was a big step for us all to cross, and will, I think, really have an effect on people and the vile and vicious malady that drugs have caused the state of New York over the last 30 to 40 years.
MARTIN: If you're just joining us, you're listening to TELL ME MORE from NPR News. We're speaking with the governor of New York, David Paterson. Governor, let's talk about everybody favorite topic these days: the economy. New York has a projected a $16 billion deficit, the largest in state history. This week, you've announced some tough cuts: 8,900 jobs from the state workforce. Last month, you had an appearance on Squawk Box, where you talked about spending habits in New York. You said: "We have an addiction to spending in New York government. When Wall Street was doing well from January 1st of 1990 to June 1998 when the Dow Jones went from 2,500 to 10,000, our budgets in those 10 years were in deficit for five years. Twenty percent of our taxes come from Wall Street, so we clearly mismanaged." That's the end of that quote. Is that the main factor in New York's economic situation? Do you think it's management, or are there other factors?
Gov. PATERSON: Well, I mean that accounts for New York's inability too often to balance our priorities as much as balance our budget. But I would say that our budget deficit, which was at 09-10, it was projected at $5 billion a year ago, is basically now at $20 billion. In other words, it has quadrupled in the last year. And a lot of that came from the economic downturn that arose, the catalyst being Wall Street. Wall Street, as you properly pointed out, comprises 20 percent of New York's revenues. And so we have certainly mismanaged and misprioritized in New York State, but I would say the overwhelming deficit that we face right now is the tremendous reduction in personal bonuses and capital gains.
This was New York's economy for years, the big bonuses that got paid out - now whether rightly or wrongly, but it did constitute a great value in our economy. Now as people are questioning these types of bonuses in an economic hardship case and companies getting bailout money and turning it into their own individual profit in terms of bonuses, one of the sad reality is from New York is that as we are tamping down on that, we are also reducing New York's revenue base.
MARTIN: I wanted to ask you about that. As you know, of course, a lot of the anger over the economic crisis - fairly or unfairly - is being directed at Wall Street. And as you pointed out, when these bonuses are not delivered, New York's revenue suffers. How do you balance that as a political leader?
Gov. PATERSON: Well, I think that we're going to have to re-divert New York's culture economy from financial services to clean and renewable energy sources, to workforce development and information technology, to medical and scientific research and to other forms of revenue raising because the financial services are not going to be able to create that false economy that New York had all these years. Well, when it has dissipated, it has just disrupted our entire economy. And I don't think that people realize the disastrous consequences of the economic downturn that has been vested upon New York.
MARTIN: You know, of course, New York's Attorney General Andrew Cuomo has made headlines for leveraging the power of his office to get the names of executives that insurance giant AIG - who received some $165 million in bonuses. This is, of course, something that just caused a fury across the country. Now he says that 15 of the top 20 recipients of those bonuses are going to give the money back. Is he doing the right thing?
Gov. PATERSON: Oh, he's absolutely doing the right thing. I think that the outrage that we all felt - and New York State was actually the first entity to try to assist AIG. Then when we realized that we couldn't even measure what their deficit was, that they didn't even have a central bookkeeping to keep track of it because of their credit default swaps, we passed the problem along to the New York Fed, and then, inevitably, the secretary of the treasury, and they gave them $85 billion bailout.
Well, when I looked up a couple of weeks later and all the executives were at some retreat in Maryland, I was aghast. And then to see the bonuses that they've handed out, I think it offends every American, the arrogance of when you're getting help from taxpayers that you would respond that way. The only problem for New Yorkers is those bonuses dwindled. The tax receipts we collect are dissipated along with them. So in addition to being angry, we are less off than we were before because they're not paying the taxes on those bonuses here in our state.
MARTIN: Speaking of anger, you've been traveling around the state to get the feedback from the public on how you should address these budget matters, and you've already announced there are going to be some tough decisions in the offing. People are giving you the business. Why are you doing that? Why are you letting people fuss at you like that?
Gov. PATERSON: I think it's the right of citizens. And I think that as a the leader of this state, it's my responsibility, if there are going to be tough decisions, to go and explain them to people. And at first, I think anyone's reaction is an angry one when you hear that your health care systems are going to be cut, that your education money is going to be diminished, that services for housing and - you know, the unemployment rate in New York City, for instance, today it was just announced that 8.1 percent - it was only 6.9 percent in January. So it's up.
And, you know, hearing that there's a possibility of imposing taxes - which actually hurts us because when we impose taxes, people move out of the state, and then that reduces our tax base. But we're in such desperate situation, that we've actually started to consider it. I've been fighting this for a year, but our budget deficit has grown $3 billion in the last two months. When you quoted it at $16 billion, it's now 16-and-a-half billion dollars.
MARTIN: Governor, forgive me. We're almost right out of time. Forgive me, governor, for interrupting. We're almost out of time. So I think it does - we want to ask you, still want this job next year? Are you planning to run for reelection?
Gov. PATERSON: Well, I'm planning to run for reelection because I think that when you make good ethical decisions and try to balance budgets, that people react angrily at first, but when they see the whole picture, I think that a good ethical decision becomes a good political decision. So people are very angry now, but any responsible person that served as governor, I think, would be making the tough choices that I'm making right now.
MARTIN: David Paterson is the governor of New York. He joined us from his office in the state capital at Albany. Governor, thank you so much for speaking with us.
Gov. PATERSON: Thank you, Michel.
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