European Official: We Have A 'Moral Duty' To Help Afghan Refugees
RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:
The chaotic withdrawal of the U.S. out of Afghanistan has left Europe with a challenge - how to get all 27 member nations on board with a plan to manage a potential influx of Afghan refugees. European Commissioner Ylva Johansson handles migration issues, and she's been pushing for a deal.
YLVA JOHANSSON: We have a lot of people that have been fighting for our values and done that in a really good way in Afghanistan. And it's our moral duty now to do everything we can to protect them and evacuate them to a safe home.
MARTIN: But she told me there is resistance stemming back to the last time Europe confronted mass migration.
JOHANSSON: There is a fear in European Union or in Europe that we should see the same kind of migration crisis that we had in 2015. But I must say that we have really good opportunities to avoid that.
MARTIN: I'm sorry. We should just remind people - 2015, this is when Europe saw just thousands and thousands of refugees came, many of them from Syria at that point.
JOHANSSON: Yes. And that - we were not prepared, and we reacted too late. We are much better prepared. And we should not wait until people have been smuggled and suffering and coming to the external borders. The best way to avoid that is to avoid a humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan. And that's why it's important now that we are stepping up significantly our humanitarian aid, that we are putting pressure on the Taliban regime that need to comply with fundamental rights and to avoid Afghanistan to be a safe haven for terrorists, for example, and to work with U.N. agencies that are on the ground. This is why we have a lot of internally displaced people, for example, in Afghanistan. And it's important to help them to get back to their homes.
MARTIN: The EU has pledged to give support to third countries that are hosting large numbers of refugees. What countries are you talking about specifically? Why would the EU do that?
JOHANSSON: Well, I think we have in this situation, if we would like to avoid a humanitarian crisis that could lead to a migration crisis, then, of course, we need to work in different strands. One is to support Afghans in Afghanistan. But we also know that there are millions of Afghans outside Afghanistan, mainly in Iran and Pakistan. And, of course, we should also be ready to support these Afghans that are already outside Afghanistan. And we should be ready also to evacuate and do resettlement. So it's not a question on either or. So it's we have to do all these things.
MARTIN: Does that mean that the EU is giving support in some form to Pakistan and Iran in hopes of keeping the Afghan refugees who are already there out of Europe?
JOHANSSON: I think that's a more difficult question. I think that what we are saying is - and that was also in the state of the union speech by President von der Leyen - that we will support Afghan people. And we will present a wider Afghan support package in a few weeks, and that focusing on the Afghans. And there are other ways to support Afghans than doing it through the regimes in the countries where they are living.
MARTIN: You mentioned European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. She said in her state of the union address that this comes down to trust among the nations of Europe. Can you explain where that trust could be frayed?
JOHANSSON: This was in the previous period really one of the big problems where member states were dramatizing, some of them I should say, dramatizing migration. And I think that's totally the wrong way to do. And my president supports me on this.
MARTIN: When you say dramatizing, Commissioner, do you mean dramatizing, exaggerating some possible deleterious effects of migration?
JOHANSSON: Yes because in my view - and I think this is really important - migration is normal. Migration has always been here, will always be here, and migration is nothing to be afraid of. And migration is nothing that we can totally stop. Of course, we have challenges, but they are manageable. And if you start panicking and being afraid of migration, then you will not be able to manage in a humane and orderly way.
MARTIN: Ylva Johansson, commissioner for migration for the European Union, thank you so much for talking with us.
JOHANSSON: Thank you.
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