'She Said' is a movie about journalism that knows whose story to tell : Pop Culture Happy Hour The film She Said is about the New York Times investigation of movie producer Harvey Weinstein. Zoe Kazan plays Jodi Kantor and Carey Mulligan plays Megan Twohey. Their reporting on Weinstein's sexual misconduct and assault allegations contributed greatly to the #MeToo movement, and helped lead to criminal charges that sent Weinstein to prison. The film was directed by Maria Schrader and written by Rebecca Lenkiewicz and is in theaters now.

'She Said' is a movie about journalism that knows whose story to tell

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A warning - this episode contains discussion of sexual assault.


THOMPSON: The movie "She Said" is about Megan Twohey and Jodi Kantor, The New York Times reporters who broke the huge story that helped bring down movie producer Harvey Weinstein in 2017. It's a movie about the complex and fraught world of investigative reporting, as well as the lives upended by decades of sexual misconduct. I'm Stephen Thompson, and today, we are talking about "She Said" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. Joining us today is NPR senior editor for investigations, Barrie Hardymon. Hey, Barrie.


THOMPSON: Also joining us is podcast, producer and film and culture critic Cate Young. Hey, Cate.

CATE YOUNG: Hey. Thanks for having me.

THOMPSON: Pleasure to have you. Also with us is NPR correspondent Anastasia Tsioulcas. Hey, Anastasia.


THOMPSON: Now, we should mention that Anastasia is an occasional contributor to The New York Times, where she serves as a music critic. Now, "She Said" is based on Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey's New York Times investigation and subsequent book, titled "She Said: Breaking The Sexual Harassment Story That Helped Ignite A Movement." They are at the center of this movie, played by Zoe Kazan and Carey Mulligan, respectively. The film breaks down the story of how they reported on movie producer Harvey Weinstein, not only his many years of sexual misconduct but also his pattern of buying victims' silence, threatening reporters and damaging the careers of women who rejected or challenged him. Kantor and Twohey's reporting in The New York Times contributed greatly to the #MeToo movement and helped lead to criminal charges that sent Weinstein to prison.

"She Said" weaves together many threads from reluctant sources and nondisclosure agreements to the issues of work-life balance that affected the reporters, both of whom had young children at home. It also depicts the work of their shrewd and supportive editors, including Patricia Clarkson as Rebecca Corbett and Andre Braugher as Dean Baquet. The film also finds ways to dramatize and humanize Weinstein's victims, who ranged from young assistants to major stars, including Ashley Judd, who appears in "She Said" as herself. "She Said" was directed by Maria Schrader and written by Rebecca Lenkiewicz and is in theaters now.

Barrie, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of "She Said?"

HARDYMON: I loved it. I loved it. I loved watching it. I am maybe not a typical consumer of this, in that I - this is the work that I do. You know, I work on investigations. And so the processy (ph) part of this was just so lovely to see. I loved everything from, you know, explaining the process of investigative reporting without it being, like, exposition, exposition, exposition, but there was a sense of like, no, we can't publish that until we have this number backed up by someone else. Go find a source for this. So, you know, if you chose to, you could come out of this with a pretty good idea of, like - of how this work is done. I have never done this kind of reporting on sexual assault - I know Anastasia has - so that part of it was very new to me and incredibly informative and beautiful to watch. I thought there was this beautiful way of dealing with the reporters themselves that was very quiet, in which we saw slices of their life that weren't heavy-handed.

I think often, in this movie, when you're like, oh my goodness, some journalists with young children, it's, like, a disaster, and they're like, you know, blah, blah, blah. There was such a realistic amount of that, you know? There was it - was just - literally, it was like, oh, yeah, this is the process of being a person who works, who has young children in the house. But there's a lovely moment where she sort of quietly passes the Netflix password to her young daughter when she's having a conversation that is absolutely inappropriate. But, you know, all in all, I thought that this movie did a beautiful job - I know I've just talked a lot about the reporting itself - of actually really making the women be the center of it. And, you know, seeing both young and grown-up versions of these women was very moving. And, you know, watching Ashley Judd play herself I actually found incredibly moving as well. So, yeah, lovely choices, really great process movie. This is a movie that absolutely deserves to be in the same breath as "Spotlight," "All The President's Men." It is great. I loved it.

THOMPSON: What did you think, Cate?

YOUNG: I really agree. I think this is an absolutely remarkable film. I think it's incredibly sensitively handled. I happen to have read "She Said" when it came out in 2019, so I was familiar with the investigative part of the story and the process of getting this story to the public. And seeing that play out on screen in a way that felt humanized and considerate was honestly quite thrilling. I mean, I think that we kind of all know that it's notoriously difficult to dramatize the act of journalism. You know, it's a lot of people click-clacking at laptops, but I think that they managed to find ways to dramatize the story and humanize it in a way that really, as Barrie said, like, focused the story on these women, on their stories and to really kind of sit in those moments and really give you the impact of what they went through. I think that, you know, this film is over two hours long, and you do feel that runtime.


YOUNG: And I think that is a little bit of a flaw, but I also think that it's a bit of an artistic choice because every time we get to another woman and their story, the film just kind of stops and sits there in that trauma and, like, really makes you face the profundity of what happened to them and how deeply it affected the very direction of their lives, for a lot of them, and how heavy it was to have experienced something like that, especially as young as they did for so many of them, and how it affected all of the choices that they made subsequent to that assault. And it, like, honestly made me a little emotional to kind of realize, like, what a deep level of trust these women must have had to share their stories. I mean, we see time and time again, they seek them out. They find them. And you can see in their faces how terrified they are. There's one source who - they find her, I think, like, in her mom's house in Queens. And she basically says, like, I've been waiting 25 years for this conversation, and she's still afraid to say anything. And to realize, like, how much it took to take down one man, like, it honestly makes this, for me, a very melancholy film. Because even though they won in the end, like, it took so many women to take down one person, one man. And it really speaks to how little we believe women and how much we require of them and how much we request that they break themselves open to have the truth of their experiences be recognized. And I find that, like, deeply upsetting, frankly.

THOMPSON: Yeah. What did you think, Anastasia?

TSIOULCAS: Well, I have to say I'm very much in the same camp as Barrie. I feel like I am a very particular niche and very particularly enthusiastic watcher of this film. And like Cate, I also read "She Said" a couple of years ago when it came out, and it was really striking to me that the film version centered the journalists a little bit more than the book does. You know, we don't learn in the book so much about Megan Twohey or Jodi Kantor's home lives, and that is very much an element in the film. And as someone who's done some of the same kind of work, especially around investigating sexual misconducts claims, I really appreciated the portrayal of the unglamorous part of this work. There's a lot of time that you spend building trust with people who don't know you from Adam, and you know, they're sharing these incredibly terrifying and deeply traumatizing aspects of their lives. And in some cases, as Cate said, they've been carrying this for decades.

But also sort of the more mundane aspects of all of this - you know, trying to juggle phone calls at terrible hours, trying to still be a mother and a partner in a lot of instances - that's something I do, too. Sitting with people and sort of sharing space and holding space for them when they're telling you these terrible things that happened to them and being a journalist, but also being a human being with them, that's a skill too. Like, you know, it's a skill to sit with them in that way. And so I really appreciated that. You know, I think Barrie mentioned "All The President's Men" and "Spotlight." And the funny thing about this movie, which - and I went back and watched both of them because it's been too long. Both of those films sort of build into - you don't realize the overwhelmingness of the crimes, right?

HARDYMON: That's right.

TSIOULCAS: The point of departure for both of those films - you're discovering, along the journalists, the enormity of the crimes. And the funny thing about "She Said" is they also don't realize how many women have been affected. And by this point, I think it's at least 82 women who have made claims against Harvey Weinstein. So that number is overwhelming. But we know from the get-go who the guy is...


TSIOULCAS: ...In a way we don't really know in "All The President's Men" or "Spotlight." So, you know, this film has different challenges to overcome because it can't sort of build up that same way. But I thought it was really well done. I think it - any film that sort of takes a general audience through this kind of work is really welcome and valuable. But, again, that's just me. It was interesting to me also that when I was at the screening I attended in New York, it was an all-female audience and just seeing and sort of feeling an audience of all women responding to all of these issues on screen was really, really illuminating for me.

HARDYMON: That's so funny that you say that. Stephen and I saw it at the same screening, and I did not - Stephen, I don't know. You had a - you were up a little higher. Maybe you could see more the composition of the audience, but it seemed to be fairly mixed. And I was surrounded by the most enthusiastic watchers who were literally responding to, like, oh, they got him now. Like, oh, no, she didn't know. Like, it was the most - I could not have asked for a better audience because, like Cate said, it is slow. There are places where it loses tension. But, again, I think that point, Cate, that you made about how they really sit with each story is just a lovely and important, profound choice. Can I ask a question? I'm so interested to see what other people thought about the - where it ended because it ended where "All The President's Men" ended. It ended where "Spotlight" ended, where you don't get the, like, satisfaction of the perp walk. But what do we think of that choice of not - like, is it a choice meant to make us be like there is no satisfaction here, you know?

YOUNG: I mean, I don't know if that is the intent, but I do know that when I was sitting in the theater and I was watching it - well, firstly, I never knew that you could get so much tension out of watching six people click publish.

THOMPSON: Oh, my God. It's the most dramatic CMS publishing.

HARDYMON: Yes. (Laughter) That's true.

TSIOULCAS: Seriously.

YOUNG: I mean, it was literally, like - I was, like, on the edge of my seat. And they're just, like - they're, like, clicking web ready, print ready. And I'm like, OK, God, we're doing it. But I think, for me, I definitely was a little disappointed that we didn't get the aftermath because, obviously, we know what happens next. You know, this isn't the only story that they publish about this case. And, you know, we get a little bit of the details of, you know, Ronan Farrow and his competing investigation. And we don't really go into a ton of that. But, like, we know that there was a lot happening in terms of illuminating these stories at the time. One of the things that I really liked about the film is that it really put me back into that moment.


YOUNG: Like, I remember sitting in my bedroom reading the story and, like, a month out - I think the story broke in, like, October or something. And getting to November and thinking, like, oh, we're still talking about this. Like, it's not going away. Like, I remember being genuinely surprised that it stayed in the news cycle and that it actually built into something more. And I think that this film gives you the sense that that is coming, but I really would have liked to see more of what that consequence looks like.

HARDYMON: I wanted to see dominoes fall.


YOUNG: Yeah, like, in the book, there is a scene where they gather all the women together, essentially, to tell them, like, you're not alone, and, like, we can jump together. And they kind of allude to that in the film, but they don't show that scene.

HARDYMON: At Gwyneth's. They had...

YOUNG: Yeah.


HARDYMON: ...An opportunity to show us Gwyneth Paltrow's house. That's where that...

YOUNG: I know.

HARDYMON: ...Took place.

TSIOULCAS: That's right.

YOUNG: I remember that detail, too. And I was like, I really wish we had gotten that. And I assume it's because, obviously, some of these other actresses, like, did not want to be on the record. Like, I think it's an extremely brave choice that Ashley Judd took to portray herself in this film.

HARDYMON: Hundred percent.

TSIOULCAS: For sure.

YOUNG: But I can understand why other actresses might not want to do that because to me, what I was reading the book, that was so impactful because it's not just - it wasn't just Hollywood actresses. This is also, like, assistants. This is also, like, young women who were trying to build a career who got derailed almost entirely the second that they joined the industry. And to see that kind of visual of, like, this man has affected so many people. He has ruined so many lives. I had this moment where Jodi Kantor is talking to, I believe, Zelda Perkins in, like, a cafe in London. Zelda hadn't, I think, been assaulted - or as dramatically - as I believe her name was...


TSIOULCAS: Rowena Chiu.

YOUNG: Right. But she had been there that night that it had happened. And she was very adamant that this was not OK, and she had confronted Harvey at the time. She was honestly, like, very brave, and I'm, like, kind of in awe of her that she was able to do that at such a young age.

HARDYMON: Hundred percent.

YOUNG: But that was the moment that I really felt that, like, all of these women had aspirations, lives, ideas, creativity that just - we just didn't get because of this one man. All of the stories that we could have had, all of the culture-changing things that we could have been privy to that we lost because he terrified them out of this industry. And it just - like, I'm getting emotional talking about it because it is just so upsetting to think about the outsize impact that one man had on an entire industry and all of the ways in which people enabled him to continue abusing people. And it is so frustrating to know that it took this much work to take him down.

HARDYMON: That's right.

TSIOULCAS: The movie touches - and I would say that this is one thing I felt was lacking. There's sort of a little bit on a couple of the lawyers who sort of serve to protect him, maybe not enough. Again, to make a parallel back to "Spotlight," there's a lot of self-reflection and sort of saying, like, how did the power structures of the city protect this horrible abuse? How did individuals protect this horrible abuse? And we get a little bit of that in "She Said." I would have preferred a little more.

But, you know, Cate, you just brought up Rowena Chiu. And one detail that has just haunted me from the book and was brought into the film was Rowena Chiu, this very young assistant, saying that she tried to protect herself by wearing two pairs of tights when she went into a meeting with Harvey Weinstein. And it's just those little moments you realize that fragility, especially of these - the very young people - because the abuse, as you said, went from people just entering the business to very well-established actresses, you know, household-name actresses. And going back to the, you know, why weren't there dominoes? - Weinstein's on trial right now in Los Angeles. Like, this - his story is not over by any stretch, you know? So I wonder if that was a deliberate choice. You can't put a bookend on an ongoing criminal investigation.

HARDYMON: Oh, I see. I guess I just wanted Wednesday and Thursday of that week.


HARDYMON: You know, I wanted the Gwyneth story...

YOUNG: Yeah.

HARDYMON: ...And then I wanted the Ronan...


HARDYMON: ...Farrow story. And then I wanted the title.


YOUNG: Yeah, because I definitely wanted to feel more of, like, this was a seismic cultural shift that happened. And I wanted to get a sense of that. Like, I wanted to see that, like, people understood that this was a massive story. I mean, I have this, like, very vague memory of watching, like, an Oscars telecast how many ever years ago. I don't remember who the host was. But I remember them making a joke about, like, pretending to like Harvey Weinstein...


YOUNG: ...And, like, not really getting it. But, like, everyone laughed at the time.

THOMPSON: It was Seth MacFarlane.

YOUNG: And it was only after this investigation I was like, oh, they fully all knew.


HARDYMON: Everybody.

THOMPSON: It was an open secret. Yeah.

HARDYMON: Men and women.

THOMPSON: Yeah. I got to say I'm not sure I would have changed anything about this movie. I was really fully blown away by it. You're just seeing hundreds of small, smart decisions that were made in the telling of this story. I want to take a second and just shout out Maria Schrader's direction and Rebecca Lenkiewicz's script - are doing such a hard job of weaving together dozens and dozens of stories in a digestible way. And as hard as this story is and as sad - and I think - Cate, I think you used the word melancholy to describe this story. That is all true, but it's also a yarn. While, you know, it slows down in spots, it's slowing down to reflect. And I cannot tell you how many tiny, subtle details where the camera shows you a woman - she's telling her story, but you see some tiny fragment of her life. It might be a doorway. It might be a child, it might...


THOMPSON: ...Be a quick interaction with a loved one. It might just be done in the set design. But you are getting a sense that everyone in this movie has an inner life, and that is so hard to pull off.

TSIOULCAS: It is incredibly hard to pull off. I mean, this could have been so easily, you know, a movie of people crying...


HARDYMON: Right. Yeah.

TSIOULCAS: ...And punching at their iPhones, right?


TSIOULCAS: And yeah, it was telling in a million very, very small, painterly moments.

THOMPSON: Painterly is a nice word for it. I also want to shout out something this movie doesn't bother to tell you in the little inevitable crawl at the end, where it gives you a little - kind of wraps it up with a little bit of context. The movie doesn't tell you that these women won Pulitzer Prizes.

TSIOULCAS: No. It centers the women who are brave enough to tell their stories and all the choices, all the terrifying moments that led up to that, right? I thought it was a really honorable choice.

HARDYMON: I agree. Honorable is another really great way to describe it. And, you know, you could have started this story anywhere, right? But - in that they started with Megan Twohey's reporting on Trump, where they were these women that had come forward, you know, and then he was elected president, right? And she's disillusioned. And there's a very small conversation in, you know, The New York Times offices where the two women talk about, well, you know, like, should we care about these actresses, you know? You know, I remember reading this at my computer, and I remember the day. I remember sitting at Weekend Edition Sunday and thinking, we should probably book these women. Does anybody care about this? And literally thinking, I don't know if this is a big deal or not. Seems like a big deal to me because I had been so used to it not being a big deal, you know? So I - again, I think it had all of - there were a lot of answers to unasked questions, which, again, like, the direction is just gorgeous.

THOMPSON: Well, and how tempting - how many lesser movies would have tried to create tension in the newsroom?


THOMPSON: Is this a story?


THOMPSON: Why aren't you getting clicks?

HARDYMON: No. Oh, the supportive...

THOMPSON: You know, like, to turn an editor into a bad guy...

HARDYMON: Yeah. I really find that offensive.

THOMPSON: ...To create resistance in their home lives. Like, you should be at home. Like...


THOMPSON: Oh, the decision to just make the people around them as supportive as they obviously were - you're watching heroic editing. And, like, to see editors depicted as heroes, yes, this - I think this panel is unusually biased.


HARDYMON: I just fell in love with you all over again, Stephen, when you said heroic editors - done. Done.

YOUNG: I mean, there's a scene where they're working on the story, and it's, like, six people, and they're sitting around the laptop, and they're literally being like, no, you have to move this paragraph here. This should be the lead. And I'm like, yes, I feel seen. This is how it works.

THOMPSON: Hook it to my veins.

TSIOULCAS: And, you know, even - there's a fairly, probably, for most audience, prolonged discussion about how long to give Weinstein and his team for feedback. And I've had those discussions.

HARDYMON: Oh, I loved that. Same.

TSIOULCAS: And I enjoy this unveiling of the process, you know, and how tactical, sometimes, these decisions can be. You know, but also, it's the - how do we negotiate all of these people with competing self-interests, you know? Yeah. I appreciated that a lot.

YOUNG: We haven't really talked a ton about the performances so far, but I really wanted to give a shout out to Andre Braugher. I mean, I really enjoyed it.

HARDYMON: Yes, yes.

YOUNG: He is very fun in this.


HARDYMON: Yes. And Patricia Clarkson.

YOUNG: Yes. And I mean Andre Braugher in particular. I mean, he's playing Dean Baquet. He's the executive editor, I believe, of The Times or was at the time. And a lot of his role in this film is essentially saying, we're not going to kowtow to Harvey Weinstein. If he wants to talk to us, he can get here. If he is going to stall us, we're just going to hang up the phone. And it was absolutely delightful to watch because you know that Harvey is a man who is not accustomed to being told no, not accustomed to being stonewalled, not accustomed to not getting his way. And frankly, to see this Black man sit in this - the office of The New York Times and say, so we have things to do; goodbye was wonderful.

THOMPSON: Yeah. To be so unimpressed.

HARDYMON: Yes. Yes. Like, I got a paper to run. It's so - it was - yeah, you're right. And I also - the other performance that I thought was stunning - they were both two of the women. One was Zelda Perkins, and the other was Laura Madden. And those performances - when they're telling their story, I felt it in a way that I have rarely seen this kind of acting, where it is visceral and small moments and the way that each of them looked at the person and then looked away and breathing - just the most nuanced performances that showed how - the impact that this had on them. I just - gorgeous performances.

YOUNG: I agree. I mean, I'm honestly very curious to see what things will look like and how they will shake out when it comes to awards season because I genuinely feel that, like, every single actress...

HARDYMON: Every one.

YOUNG: ...Who portrayed one of these victims did an incredible job. I mean, I had to remind myself that they were not, in fact, the people who we were talking about...

HARDYMON: Same, same.

YOUNG: ...At several points because the pain that you see bubble up under their faces - like, it is just heartbreaking. I mean, there's so many times they go out to sources. They try to get people on the record. And the second they hear Harvey Weinstein's name or the second they hear Miramax, they shut down because they know what's coming. They all know what's coming. And it is so profound, I think, to realize that they have this shared experience that everyone is terrified to talk about.

THOMPSON: Yeah. This is a great movie.



YOUNG: Absolutely.

THOMPSON: It's a fantastic film. Please go see it. I'm so - I'm just excited to talk about it. I could keep talking about it, but we should move on. Tell us what you think about "She Said" after you go see it. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh. Up next, what is making us happy this week.

Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week - what is making us happy this week. Barrie Hardymon, what's making you happy this week?

HARDYMON: This is so on brand, I'm almost embarrassed. I'm just going to say it. Philippa Gregory has a new novel, people, and she is, of course, the doyen of historical fiction. She wrote "The Other Boleyn Girl" and 70 million books about the Tudors. But what I want to say that is so great about this new series - so she - the third in her "Tidelands" series came out last week. And the new one is called "Dawnlands." This is very much set in the world of the English Civil War, where you have, you know, king and Parliament at loggerheads. And these novels spend so much time on the lives of women in this period but these very minute details of what it was like to be a woman who had zero power and just these very - like, we're out of king and court. And we're just really spending time with these people trying to make it through their day.

I love the period. I love these books. I love that she has sort of turned away from, you know, the Queen Elizabeths and Marys and whatever. And so much so that, like, I should be, like, really into "The Crown" right now, but I just am not - I'm not feeling it. I'm, like, give me "Tidelands." Give me slapping petticoats against ankles and bleeding hands from this, and show me how to make a loaf of bread, you know? Anyway, loved it. I highly recommend these for people that are maybe not Tudor obsessives, you know what I'm saying?

THOMPSON: So give me the name of the book again.

HARDYMON: It's Philippa Gregory. The first book in the series is called "Tidelands," and I recommend you start there.

THOMPSON: Wonderful. Thank you, Barrie Hardymon. Cate Young, what's making you happy this week?

YOUNG: So one of the things about being a millennial who is chronically online is that you learn a lot of things by osmosis, and you just kind of absorb them. One of those things that I observed was "Addams Family Values," and I somehow thought that I had seen the film because I have seen every single meme about it. Turns out, I have not in fact seen the film.


YOUNG: But I did watch it this weekend for the first time, and it is honestly the most iconic thing I have ever seen. I cannot believe that the internet tricked me out of this wonderful film for so long.


YOUNG: And I cannot deal with it. It is so incredible. It is absolutely wonderful to see these, like, high-camp performances. Like, I really love all of those films, like, from that period, like, you know, "Death Becomes Her" and, like, all of those films. Like, I love that genre of just, like, we're going to do something absolutely insane, and you're going to love it. And I really do love it. I think the film was so fun. It's so ridiculous. It's just the most fun thing that I've seen in a really long time. I really enjoyed getting to kind of add that to my repertoire of film understanding. And I had a blast. Like, I can't wait to watch it again.

THOMPSON: Thank you, Cate. Anastasia Tsioulcas, what's making you happy this week?

TSIOULCAS: Well, I spent last week taking my oldest kid on college tours, which is not the thing that makes me happy at all.

THOMPSON: Been there.

TSIOULCAS: Makes me very, very melancholy, actually. But she suggested that we spend our time in the car listening to the podcast "Wind Of Change," which I very happily imbibed two summers ago, I think it was, when it came out. I think it was the summer of 2020. To give you a little bit of background, it's hosted by a New Yorker writer named Patrick Radden Keefe. And he's exploring this idea that maybe - just maybe - the CIA was involved in the writing of the song "Wind Of Change" by the German band Scorpions, which is unbelievable. I think it's eight - maybe eight episodes, plus some bonus material. And it is just delightful on every level. And the podcast is just so delightful through and through. It is so worth your time. And it's why - of course, it's been available for a couple years now, but I am having just the best time revisiting it with her.

THOMPSON: So that is "Wind Of Change." Thank you, Anastasia. Well, what's making me happy this week - this week, they announced the Grammy nominations. And there were three kind of surprise nominations for a wonderful Baltimore hardcore band that I think I've recommended on this show before called Turnstile. And what is making me happy isn't just that, but it is something that happened on Twitter. And occasionally, Twitter can still make me happy, which I don't even know what to say about it. The idea of the band Pool Kids and the execution of a Twitter user who goes by the tag @tacopug, Eric Gonzalez, created a mashup of Turnstile and the song "Peanut Butter Jelly Time." Here it is.


BUCKWHEAT BOYZ: (Singing) Peanut butter jelly time. Peanut butter jelly time. Peanut butter jelly time. Peanut butter jelly time. Peanut butter jelly time. Peanut butter jelly time. Peanut butter jelly time.

THOMPSON: So (laughter)...

TSIOULCAS: It's so bad.

THOMPSON: ...Great band, great idea. I still think "Peanut Butter Jelly Time" is hilarious. Sometimes what's making you happy is just a simple, dumb song. And one more thing before we go. This Sunday, we are dropping the third and final installment in our Screening Ourselves series that my pal and fellow POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR host Aisha Harris has been working on for more than a year. In each episode of Screening Ourselves, Aisha digs into film history, looks at a movie that is considered a cinema classic but wasn't exactly loved by the communities that they represented. Sunday's episode is about "The Color Purple." Previous episodes covered "Basic Instinct" and "The Godfather." This show is so good. Please make sure to check that out right here in the POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR feed. That is another thing that is making me happy this week. That brings us to the end of our show. Anastasia Tsioulcas, Barrie Hardymon, Cate Young, thanks to all of you for being here.

HARDYMON: Thank you.

TSIOULCAS: Thank you.

YOUNG: Thank you so much.

THOMPSON: This episode was produced by Rommel Wood and edited by Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.

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