STEVE INSKEEP, Host:
As you know the days are getting shorter, and darker and colder. It's the time of year when winter begins to creep in and also the time of year when we look for things to make us feel a little more warm and comfortable. One of the best ways to do that is through a little dose of self indulgence. The food writer in MORNING EDITION regular, Nigella Lawson, has some thoughts about self indulgence. She joins us from London to talk about them. Hi, Nigella.
NIGELLA LAWSON: Hello. I'm very, very pro self-indulgence.
(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)
LAWSON: I think I'll be upfront now.
INSKEEP: I had a feeling you might be, although, we should emphasize that in the United States self indulgence - I mean, kind of got that puritan heritage over here - it's considered bad.
LAWSON: It is considered bad, and in a way, you could say that only heightens the pleasure. So, your negativity is not entirely negative, we should say. I mean, I think that we feel self indulgence is bad for two reasons. I think one, that people are kind of diet obsessed; and the other, of course, as you say, it's a puritanical feeling that somehow, if you enjoy yourself, there must be some moral slackness.
INSKEEP: Hmm. Well let's just dive into some moral slackness here, if we might, because once again, our colleague, Courtney Dorning, has baked one of your recipes, here. And just at first glance, it looks like a cross between a pancake and toasted cheese sandwich. I believe its called doughnut French toast. What is it?
LAWSON: Okay that's fine, it's the right sort of color.
INSKEEP: Oh my god, it's amazing.
LAWSON: It's really...
INSKEEP: Excuse me, this is just amazing, it's like a doughnut but it's a French toast. Go on, go on please.
LAWSON: No, well I think - the reason I think (unintelligible) a doughnut, is because the eggy-ness(ph) and the vanilla come through and then you put sugar on top, like a doughnut. And there's something - I don't know whether this is true - but someone said to me, that vanillin, which is the thing that make vanilla smell like it does, is present in breast milk. So we have some very primitive desire to be comforted by the taste of vanilla. I don't whether it's true or not, but I'm just telling you. So, you could say it's a kind of Freudian self indulgence.
INSKEEP: I had a mouthful of it when you're saying that - it's really more than I needed to know. But thank you anyway, I appreciate it. It does taste like it's got like - almost like a doughnut glaze on it. Its really is quite a treat. It's really great.
LAWSON: Well, sugar, you know, sugar is enormously comforting. And I say that as someone who finds all food comforting, including savory foods.
INSKEEP: So, how do you find a balance - or do you even try - between enjoying something a little rich, from time to time, and actually, you know, going overboard and being unhealthy.
LAWSON: Well, I think the balance is much easier to maintain if you don't deny yourself all the time. I think people who forbid themselves to eat anything that's been fried or that has butter are the ones that suddenly manage to eat tubs and tubs of ice cream. Whereas, I think the body is self-regulating. There are times when you want something fried and then you will feel like a very light soup or a plate of steamed vegetables. I mean, I actually feel I eat very healthily. My only problem is that I eat enough for five healthy individuals.
(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)
INSKEEP: Oh, come on.
LAWSON: That - it's a portion control issue. But I do think it is okay to eat foods that the dieticians say don't eat. I also think that one should make a real distinction between self-indulgent foods that are real foods, and processed foods which have all sorts of things and which aren't good for you. So, as long as you're cooking proper food for yourself, I don't think you need to feel so bad about it.
INSKEEP: Well, that's interesting. It sounds a little like Michael Pollan, who has been in this program many times, talking about...
INSKEEP: ...you know, something that feels natural, something the grandmother would recognize as a food - rather than a food product or something.
LAWSON: Now, he is quite right there.
INSKEEP: Now, you've also got... If you don't mind, I'm going to eat the other piece of this doughnut French toast.
LAWSON: Carry on. (Unintelligible).
INSKEEP: And as I do that... Yes, (unintelligible), it does have a crunch to it. It's really crispy, it's great. I wonder if you could describe another recipe you've got here. I don't know if this would go with the doughnut French toast, but if you would describe Cheddar Cheese Risotto, please.
LAWSON: I would be delighted to. I don't think it does go with it. But I think it has a lot in common, even though, of course, the ingredients are very, very different; which is, I suppose, self-indulgent foods reminiscent of the taste we loved in childhood. So, just like the eggs and the milk and the sugar in the doughnut French toast, the cheese risotto - the cheese melts and becomes sort of gooey. So I suppose it's like a slightly grown-up grilled cheese sandwich. But there's something about carbohydrate, which you can beat carbohydrate for comfort. And even though I, at first felt - I felt bad about the Italians and why I'm putting cheddar in a risotto - but an Italian friend of mine says that whenever she goes back to Italy, they ask her to bring cheddar back; because of course, for them, they make a choice between cheese that has a flavor, or cheese that goes gooey. Now cheddar has a strong flavor and also goes gooey. So it's kind of perfect.
INSKEEP: Hmm. But not something that would be on a traditional Italian plate.
LAWSON: Oh, not at all. But I think that my notion of self indulgence, perhaps, isn't entirely the same as everyone else's. And what I love about this dish, is you can sneak a few minutes in the kitchen and just stir - and sometimes I find that the best way to switch off. So, I'm really in my own little world, stirring something, and then I'm eating it. I do think also, anything that can be eaten out of a bowl with a spoon is a fantastic self indulgence. No cutting, no chewing.
INSKEEP: Hmm. There you go.
(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)
INSKEEP: Excuse me, I was just chewing some more of the doughnut French toast there. Is there anything to avoid when you are putting together some self indulgent food like this?
LAWSON: Well, I'm afraid there probably are things you should avoid, but I don't know that I know how to. I suppose you don't want to have them everyday. You don't want to be a pile up. And also, I think sometimes people confuse comfort eating with misery, so there is no point in indulging yourself if you are going to persecute yourself at the same time. That is what you have to avoid.
INSKEEP: What do you mean, when you say persecute, you mean...
LAWSON: If you don't enjoy it because you think I shouldn't be eating this, then don't. If you can wallow in the pleasure of every single mouthful, then you're doing something good. And I think, then, somehow it's healthier. It's not healthier - it doesn't make any difference, nutritionally, but I think the mind is important as well as the body.
INSKEEP: Nigella Lawson, thanks very much.
INSKEEP: My pleasure.
INSKEEP: It's MORNING EDITION from NPR News. I'm Steve Inskeep.
RENEE MONTAGNE, Host:
And I'm Renee Montagne.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.