Irvo Otieno's mom wants justice for him and a better system for everyone else
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
We turn now to a story that we want to warn will have graphic and disturbing descriptions of violence. It's about a 28-year-old Black man who died in a psychiatric hospital in Virginia after 10 people piled on top of him for more than 11 minutes. Seven sheriff's deputies and three hospital workers have been charged with second-degree murder. Family and friends remembered Irvo Otieno at a funeral this week. I spoke with his mom, Caroline Ouko, along with attorney Ben Crump, and I started by asking her to tell us about some of the things about her son that made her smile, the things she loved the most.
CAROLINE OUKO: My son was a good listener. And he was not quick to judge or, you know, give you an answer. He'd give you time. He imparted that gift into me to be able to look on both sides of the coin. And he loved - loved - his family.
MARTÍNEZ: What was he passionate about?
OUKO: He was passionate about his music. He believed that he was going to make it big in the music industry, and he worked hard towards that.
MARTÍNEZ: Caroline, as much as you're willing to share with us, can you tell us about your son's mental struggles?
OUKO: Irvo had his mental struggles and throughout school, throughout high school, he was fine. You know, all this didn't show up. It showed up later. And he had stretches of good days and months, you know, even into a year and over. And then he had periods, you know, where he could go into distress, like on the day when he unfortunately was killed. So he was living with mental disease, was under a doctor's care. He had a good doctor looking out for him. But sometimes, even with that, he could still go into a place where he needed to be hospitalized.
MARTÍNEZ: Ben Crump, what's your understanding of what was happening with Irvo when he was first dealing and encountered police?
BEN CRUMP: The understanding clearly is that Miss Caroline had told them that he was having a mental health crisis when they showed up. There's nothing that has been presented to us to justify the excessive use of force that they leveled on this young Black man who was having a mental health crisis. There is a propensity in America that when Black people are having mental health issues, it becomes a determining factor whether they live or die based on the color of their skin. It happens far too often in America.
MARTÍNEZ: What do you think could have been done differently right off the bat?
CRUMP: Well, certainly, had he been allowed to stay in the medical facility versus being taken to the jail, we think would have had a far different outcome than the one we witnessed on that videotape.
MARTÍNEZ: Caroline, when your son was taken to a local hospital for evaluation, what was your understanding about what was going to be done?
OUKO: When my son was taken to Henrico Doctors' Hospital, my understanding was he was going to get the care that he needed and that the doctor there was going to be able to treat him in the hospital, protect him and keep him safe and get him well and return him back home to me.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, at the hospital, police say that your son was "physically assaultive" - that's the quote - toward the officers, who then arrested him and then took him to the county jail. Does that sound like something that you believe, Caroline, that happened to your son?
OUKO: I do not believe that because I was right there sitting at the hospital reception. I followed my son. I followed them and sat at the reception. I didn't leave to drink water. I didn't leave to go even to the restroom because I was concerned that if the doctor came out looking for me, I wanted him to find me. They barred me from seeing him, and I asked them why. They didn't give me any particular reasons why I couldn't see him. That is what really hurt me. And I wanted to be back there to try and give him peace of mind. And they refused me.
MARTÍNEZ: Caroline, what does - and nothing gets your son back. I understand that. But what does justice look like for you right now?
OUKO: For me, I pray that anyone that contributed that never stepped up to do the right thing and eventually those ones that held my son down and literally suffocated him and choked the life out of him, I hope they can be prosecuted and put away in jail so they don't leave to do this to anybody else.
MARTÍNEZ: I know that you immigrated from Kenya, like countless other families have come from around the world to come to the United States compelled by the American dream.
OUKO: Yes.
MARTÍNEZ: Where does that dream stand for you right now?
OUKO: And that was the dream that pushed me to a land where, you know, we could make it possible, to a land that is welcoming, that has opened her arms to many. I believed in the American dream. My son Irvo believed in the American dream. This is home for us. I pray and hope that my home can do better by me and my family. My son Vo told us one day, Mama, you know, we'll be all right. God will not leave us hanging. And so I'll hold on to that. And I pray that we as a nation can do better.
MARTÍNEZ: That is Caroline Ouko, the mother of Irvo Otieno, and attorney Ben Crump. My thanks to you both.
OUKO: Thank you so much for having us.
CRUMP: Thank you very much.
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