< The U.S.' top general reflects on the changing face of war, 79 years after D-Day

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

On this day in 1944, U.S. and other allied troops landed on the beaches of Normandy in France. They joined the effort to retake Western Europe from Hitler's Germany. This week, General Mark Milley is in Normandy for events to mark the anniversary.

Your dad served in World War II, didn't he?

MARK MILLEY: He did. My dad was a Navy corpsman. He did the assault landings at Kwajalein Atoll, Saipan, Tinian and Iwo Jima. My mother was also serving in the Navy Medical Corps. She was in a hospital in Seattle, took care of the wounded coming back. And my dad's brother, my uncle, was here at Normandy.

INSKEEP: This is not General Milley's first visit to the D-Day beaches. It is his last as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the top military adviser to the president. Milley leaves office this fall. And as he visited historic sites, we got him talking about history and how it has informed his work. World War II ended with a U.S.-led international order that has endured for close to 80 years.

MILLEY: And the 80th year piece of this thing is something that's stuck in my mind, you know, for a long time now. And you look at the international scene, and it's under intense stress between what Russia's done in Ukraine and the whole situation in the Pacific with rising China and the stress that that's causing on its neighbors. Takes a lot of work by a lot of people to try to maintain that order. If that order goes away, then the world will be a much, much more dangerous place.

INSKEEP: He says past international orders have collapsed. In our talk, General Milley ranged as far back as the ancient Greek military historian Thucydides. He also talked of the present, the war in Ukraine, where the U.S. has led an alliance that has been gradually increasing military aid against Russia.

General, you were quoted the other day saying that the advanced tanks and advanced warplanes that the United States is now willing to send Ukraine will not be on the battlefield in time for Ukraine's spring offensive, which follows a pattern. The United States has added bits of aid step-by-step. European allies have added bits of assistance step-by-step, which is frustrating to Ukrainians and some other people. Does history tell you something about alliance building and some of the restrictions that imposes?

MILLEY: Well, I think sure, history tells you that. So I think it's key, Steve, to make sure that we provide the necessary aid for what is required on the battlefield at the time. So when Russia invaded, the key requirement, really, was for two sets of assistance. One was anti-tank munitions and artillery. The other key thing, the military problem to be solved, was the air. Control of the air and make sure that Russia could not establish either air superiority or supremacy. And the cheapest, most effective way to do that was from the ground.

INSKEEP: I'm interested in this, General, because from the outside, we get the impression that some of the gradual ramping up of assistance has to do with diplomacy and alliances and even domestic politics. You don't want to go farther than your allies are willing to go. But you're arguing here, I think, that it's about practicality and cost and what works at any given time.

MILLEY: Well, I think that any decision is going to be the result of multiple factors. It's not a single factor. You've also got to look at the alliance to make sure you keep the alliance together all moving forward, shoulder to shoulder. And then you got to factor in the practical military things like the cost and what the military problem is, you know, control of the air, that sort of thing. All of those factors go into the decision.

INSKEEP: Are there some ancient fundamentals of warfare that still apply even as the technology changes so much?

MILLEY: Well, sure. I think, you know, if you look back at the ancients, you look at Thucydides, for example, and he tells us that the cause of war is primarily fear, interest and pride. I think all three of those are clearly at play here in many, many ways with respect to Russia. Their pride was hurt significantly with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the movement of the NATO boundary from the inter-German border between East and West Germany and then moving that NATO boundary further to the east. In terms of interest, if you look at Thucydides, you know, he can tell us all of that. But if you come closer in time, you go to Clausewitz, for example, from the Napoleonic Wars era. He talks about the nature of war and the character of war. So the nature of war is clearly applying friction, fear, uncertainty, the dynamic between the people, the government, the army. So that's all at play - but also the character of war. So the character of war fundamentally changes only once in a while. The last big one, you know, is between World War I and World War II with the introduction of mechanization, the airplane, the radio.

But today, we're undergoing a fundamental change in the character of war. What you see playing out in Ukraine - you're seeing snippets of that. You see the widespread use of precision munitions. You see the widespread use of electronic warfare. And we've got to make sure that we maintain our edge, we maintain our readiness for the future operating environment, which is going to accentuate long-range precision fires, artificial intelligence, robotics. We've got to make sure we modernize our military. And by doing that, we'll deter any sort of potential aggression by any future great power that might threaten the United States and our interests.

INSKEEP: I'm wondering if artificial intelligence, which you mentioned, could bring an even more fundamental change. A battlefield on which people are not only using computers and weaponry, but the computers might be choosing when to open fire and on what. Could that change the entire nature of warfare?

MILLEY: Well, you know, the nature of war is built upon the assumption that human beings are driving decision-making in the conduct of war. So it is possible, in a theoretical sense, that the United States policy right now, actually, with respect to artificial intelligence and its application to military operations is to ensure that humans remain in the decision-making loop. That is not the policy, necessarily, of adversarial countries that are also developing artificial intelligence. So your point is well taken.

And there's little doubt in my mind that artificial intelligence is going to play a fundamental and big role in future operations. And what does it allow you to do? Theoretically, it allows you to see the enemy and see yourself and process all the incredible amounts of information at a faster rate of speed than your adversary. And then if you combine them with robotics - machines - then you get a degree of power and synergy that could change warfare in ways that, you know, we've absolutely never seen before.

INSKEEP: General Milley, thanks for your time. It's always a pleasure.

MILLEY: Thanks, Steve. I appreciate it.

INSKEEP: General Mark Milley is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

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