'Wait Wait' for July 8, 2023: 25th Anniversary Spectacular, Part IV!
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON, BYLINE: The following program was taped in front of an audience of real-live people.
BILL KURTIS: From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is WAIT WAIT… DON’T TELL ME, the NPR news quiz. I’m the voice Thomas Jefferson heard in his head when he wrote the Declaration of Independence, Bill Kurtis.
(LAUGHTER)
KURTIS: And here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in downtown Chicago, Peter Sagal.
PETER SAGAL, HOST:
Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody. You’re so kind. So this year marks our 25th anniversary on the air. And if you find that hard to believe, try this out. The year is already half over, and we’ve barely scratched the surface of our greatest hits.
KURTIS: We need more time. Or in retrospect, we should have been less good.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Too late now. Instead, we will try to get in as many jewels as we can, like this interview from last winter live at Carnegie Hall with Mariska Hargitay, who’s been playing Captain Benson on "Law & Order: SVU" for almost as long as we’ve been doing this show.
EMMY BLOTNIK: Captain Benson is a serious, no-nonsense officer of the law. But the woman who plays her? Not so much.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
MARISKA HARGITAY: Thank you so much.
SAGAL: All right.
HARGITAY: I am very excited to be here.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: So I do want to go back and go over your history 'cause it is extraordinary. I want to say I did not know this until recently, that you were the child of Hollywood royalty, that your mother was Jayne Mansfield, your father, Mickey Hargitay, bodybuilder and actor, which is amazing. And I was wondering, with that kind of legacy, were you, like, always headed toward performance or...
HARGITAY: No, not at all. Actually, quite the opposite. You know, growing up in the shadow of Jayne Mansfield, it's a lot for a kid...
SAGAL: Yeah.
HARGITAY: ...And especially the story and losing my mother at such a young age. So I sort of went the other way. And my wonderful father and step-mother raised me in a very sort of way normal way...
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: ...Very sort of regular schools and not a lot of showbiz, not a lot of showbiz people, very involved in school and student government. And it wasn't until I went to high school that I tried out for a play and then went, this is fun.
SAGAL: This is fun.
HARGITAY: Yeah.
SAGAL: Did you think your background was normal, like everybody's father was like a bodybuilder who played Hercules? It's just a thing.
HARGITAY: Yeah. I mean, isn't it?
SAGAL: Yeah, I...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Then you were, like, a working actress, and you were doing all the things that working actors do. At the beginning, you were doing bits and commercials and odd little movies.
HARGITAY: All of it.
SAGAL: You were doing bits and commercials and odd little movies. You were in "Ghoulies," and you were on - you did your time on "Seinfeld."
HARGITAY: I did.
SAGAL: I know.
HARGITAY: That was such a pleasure and a joy.
SAGAL: You played an actor auditioning for the role of Elaine in the show.
HARGITAY: Yes. Yes.
SAGAL: But, in fact, you had auditioned for the role of Elaine for real.
HARGITAY: Yes.
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: So...
SAGAL: And did the real-life audition go like the one on the TV show with, basically, Jerry Seinfeld, like, massively hitting on you?
HARGITAY: Exactly like that.
SAGAL: That's what happened. Just relived that.
HARGITAY: Yeah. That's what happens.
SAGAL: That's what happens.
HARGITAY: I mean, look at me.
SAGAL: I know.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: All right. So it's, like, '99 or so, and, like, "Law & Order" has been out there for a while. And you get a - presumably a call from your agent saying they're casting a new show. It's called, if I'm not mistaken, "Law & Order: Sex Crimes."
HARGITAY: Right. OK. So first of all, it's even better than that.
SAGAL: Oh, please.
HARGITAY: I had just come off "ER." I did "ER" for almost a year.
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: And after I left that show, I said, I've hit the top. Where am I going to go now? And I remember saying, the only other show out there is "Law & Order."
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: And I thought, well, Dick Wolf likes brunettes.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: And then, no joke, as if I was speaking to the man upstairs, the audition came. And that's what was so crazy.
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: And the rest is history, people.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So after all these years of doing that role, how much of, like, you has become Olivia Benson? Do you carry that around with you?
HARGITAY: I do.
SAGAL: And how does that manifest?
HARGITAY: Well, I am good in an emergency.
SAGAL: Really? Has that come up?
HARGITAY: I jump into action. Yes. I jump in if there's a problem.
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: It just happened at the marathon.
SAGAL: What happened?
HARGITAY: I'm standing there going, go, Roger.
SAGAL: Who's Roger?
HARGITAY: Any guy that's running by.
SAGAL: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: No. What I'm saying is, like, if the marathon is not the best day in New York City, I don't know what is. It's just the...
SAGAL: It's a great day. I've done it. It's amazing.
(APPLAUSE)
HARGITAY: And I was just there with my son, and then this guy cramps and, like, falls to the floor. And I jump in, and I'm grabbing him. I'm like, are you OK? And I pick him back up. He's - I have a cramp. And then I run to the side and grab - somebody had a roller. He's covered...
SAGAL: What?
HARGITAY: He's covered in sweat. So gross.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: I grab the roller, and I start rolling out - I think there's photos of it online. I start rolling out his legs. He's rolling - now he's just like, I don't even know what's happening right now, but he was in pain.
SAGAL: So he's running a marathon. He collapses with a cramp.
HARGITAY: He got a bad cramp. I said, dude, eat a banana.
SAGAL: He's like...
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: And he's standing there.
SAGAL: And Captain Olivia Benson of the Sex Crime Unit is rolling out his leg.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: It's a true story.
SAGAL: And he's like, I have died.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: It was so funny.
SAGAL: I've had a massive heart attack, and this is heaven.
HARGITAY: Actually, truth be told, I don't - he didn't - I don't think he recognized me.
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: And neither did anybody else. They're not thinking about that.
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: They're not thinking that Captain Liv's going to save the day. They're just not thinking that.
SAGAL: Are you a good detective? Are you, like, good at finding your husband's lost phone, for example?
HARGITAY: Well, I found his first two mistresses like this.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: I found it. And he was like, how did you do that? I was like, Peter...
SAGAL: Come on, you know...
HARGITAY: ...Stop already.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: You guys are laughing. And it's making me think that I picked the wrong show to be on.
(LAUGHTER)
HARI KONDABOLU: You don't understand. Like, as comics, like, you're, like, one of our patron saints.
BLOTNIK: Yeah.
HARGITAY: Really?
BLOTNIK: Yeah.
KONDABOLU: Because we travel all over the country by ourselves, right? We are alone. We have these gigs. Whether they are good or bad, we have to go back to the Hampton Inn or Hilton Garden Inn, if you want to splurge.
(LAUGHTER)
KONDABOLU: And we're lonely, and we put the TV on, and you're always there.
SAGAL: Right.
HARGITAY: I am.
(APPLAUSE)
KONDABOLU: You...
HARGITAY: Always.
KONDABOLU: You are home.
HARGITAY: Always.
KONDABOLU: You are home to us. You don't understand. You are home to us. Can I get a part next season?
(LAUGHTER)
KONDABOLU: I can play a body.
HARGITAY: Yes.
KONDABOLU: I can play an uncooperative witness in the neighborhood who ends up a body.
HARGITAY: I love all these ideas.
BLOTNIK: We were trying to figure out earlier, would he be a victim or a special victim?
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: Very - he would be oh, so very special.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: Yeah. You guys, let's make T-shirts. Am I right?
SAGAL: Exactly.
BLOTNIK: Yeah. I already have one that says, arrest me, sex cop.
HARGITAY: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: I see a whole marketing thing. We could get rich.
SAGAL: Well, Mariska Hargitay, we've invited you here to play a game we're calling...
KURTIS: Welcome to the SVU - the Sweet Valley Universe.
SAGAL: That's right. We're going to ask you three questions about the universe of "Sweet Valley High" as described in the teenage book series that sold 150 million copies between 1983 and 2003. Answer two out of three questions correctly, you will win our prize for one of our listeners - the voice of anyone they choose. Did you read any of those books?
HARGITAY: Not one.
SAGAL: OK, neither have I.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Bill, who is Mariska Hargitay playing for?
KURTIS: Kathy Goodwin (ph) of New York, N.Y.
SAGAL: All right. Here we go.
(APPLAUSE)
HARGITAY: I'm so nervous.
SAGAL: Here's your first question. The credited author of the "Sweet Valley High" books was a woman named Francine Pascal, although she did not write a word of any of them. She farmed it all out to ghostwriters. Why did she say did she not write any of the books herself? Was it A, because, quote, "I'm more interested in math than literature, specifically counting my money."
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: B, because, quote, "my own writing is for a sophisticated, educated audience." Or C, because, quote, "you know what's better than doing good work? Telling somebody else that theirs needs to be better."
HARGITAY: B.
SAGAL: You're going to go for B. That's exactly right.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: That's what she said. Her own writings - see - they're for a sophisticated audience. And then she went on to say that she wanted these books to be, quote, "for everyone." All right, here's your next question. The Sweet Valley universe is a lot like our own with some small changes. Which one of these things from the real world does not exist in Sweet Valley, Calif.? A, cocaine.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: B, the F word. Or C, vampires.
HARGITAY: I'm going to say the F-bomb.
SAGAL: Exactly right.
HARGITAY: OK.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: In one novel, a character dies from trying cocaine. Another, Jessica - the character, Jessica - dated a vampire. But the series ghostwriters were only allowed to use three curse words. And they were damn, hell and a B-word we can't say because NPR is more uptight than "Sweet Valley High."
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: All right, you're doing very well, Captain. Your last question - after 20 years of high school dating and broken hearts and true friendship, Francine Pascal decided to end the series with a bang. What happens in the last "Sweet Valley High" novel? A, the entire series is revealed to be the creation of an 11-year-old girl playing with her Barbies. B, the town of Sweet Valley is utterly destroyed by an earthquake. Or C, the central characters, twin sisters Elizabeth and Jessica, are revealed to be aliens. And they return to their home world to teach their own people how to go steady.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: I'm going to say A.
SAGAL: You're going to say A? It was B.
(LAUGHTER)
HARGITAY: Well...
SAGAL: The town was destroyed in an earthquake. And one of the main characters got smooshed by an refrigerator, too.
HARGITAY: OK.
SAGAL: It was serious. Yeah.
HARGITAY: Maybe this is why I never read it. What?
MAEVE HIGGINS: I know. It's sad.
HARGITAY: Bill, how did Mariska Hargitay do on our quiz?
KURTIS: Two out of 3 is a win...
SAGAL: A win.
KURTIS: ...On this show.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Mariska Hargitay is the star of "Law & Order: SVU" and the founder and former president of the Joyful Heart Foundation. Mariska Hargitay, thank you so much...
HARGITAY: Thank you.
SAGAL: ...For joining us.
(SOUNDBITE OF ROBERT J. WALSH AND RICHARD HARRIS' "JUSTICE")
SAGAL: When we come back, Martha Stewart on doing everything the right way. And an aging nerd gets to interview a living legend. That’s when we come back with more WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME from NPR.
KURTIS: From NPR and WBEZ-Chicago, this is WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME, the NPR news quiz. I'm Bill Kurtis, and here is your host, at the Studebaker Theater in the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Ill., Peter Sagal.
SAGAL: Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Thank you guys so much. So, as anybody who has met me or listened to me or, let's be honest, just happened to see me walking down the street knows, I am an enormous nerd. I grew up on the original "Star Trek," and I have spent my whole life wishing the next door I would walk through would automatically open with a whoosh noise.
KURTIS: So you could imagine how excited Peter was when in 2009 he got to interview Lt. Sulu himself, George Takei, in Southern California. He asked him if he ever got tired of being associated with that one role.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GEORGE TAKEI: No, I didn't get tired of that part, because they're the ones that made "Star Trek" so popular and so long-lived. However, there are producers and directors and casting people who are not very imaginative, and they can't see you in any character outside of Sulu.
SAGAL: Right.
TAKEI: And so there was a time when I found it very difficult to get cast. So I decided, well, I'm not going to fight it. I'm going to go into public service. And I served for 11 years on the Southern California Rapid Transit District Board of Directors.
SAGAL: Yeah, I mean, you got into politics, but you didn't get into any of these...
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: ...Big, you know, political causes. You actually got into nitty-gritty retail public service administration. You were...
TAKEI: Well...
SAGAL: ...Actually getting things done.
TAKEI: The cause that Mayor Bradley, who appointed me to the board...
SAGAL: This is Tom Bradley, mayor of LA for many years in the '80s.
TAKEI: That's right. He said, we need to get started on a subway system here.
SAGAL: Right.
MO ROCCA: And we need someone to steer it.
(LAUGHTER)
TAKEI: I come with experience.
SAGAL: There you go.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Tom Bradley just liked saying, full speed ahead, Mr. Sulu.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Anyway, but go on.
TAKEI: So we did have a cause, a mission, and that was to get started on building a subway system. And so we got the half-cent sales tax...
SAGAL: Right.
TAKEI: ...Passed. We went to Washington to get the federal match.
SAGAL: Well, wait a minute. Stop right there. So you're doing very important work, very complicated work. When you go to Washington to get federal legislation passed...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...So LA can build a subway system or have preliminary planning, didn't you have the problem of all the congressmen going, hey, it's Mr. Sulu?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: I mean...
TAKEI: Yes. Yes.
SAGAL: And did you - were you able to leverage that to your advantage?
TAKEI: Absolutely. I'm shameless.
(LAUGHTER)
TAKEI: I used everything.
(APPLAUSE)
TAKEI: I went on those lobbying trips with a satchel full of Sulu photographs...
SAGAL: Really?
(LAUGHTER)
TAKEI: ...And, you know, autographed them. And we weren't - we...
SAGAL: Ten million - each one goes for $10 million in federal funds.
(LAUGHTER)
ROCCA: I feel a little left out because I'm actually not a "Star Trek" geek.
TAKEI: You're not?
ROCCA: I'm not. But I am a rapid transit geek.
TAKEI: You sound like one.
(LAUGHTER)
ROCCA: I'm not a "Star Trek" geek. I'm just mistaken for one constantly.
(LAUGHTER)
ROCCA: No, but I am a rapid transit geek...
TAKEI: Ah, good.
ROCCA: ...And I just wanted to know, is there any future in the monorail?
TAKEI: Here in Los Angeles?
ROCCA: Just anywhere. I love them.
TAKEI: You do?
(LAUGHTER)
TAKEI: No, what we're doing here in Los Angeles is building a network of light rail because that's less costly and putting the focus on extending the stub-ended Wilshire line.
SAGAL: Is this what other...
TAKEI: And we want to extend that to the ocean.
SAGAL: Is this what other people feel like when we're talking about "Star Trek"?
(LAUGHTER)
ROCCA: Yeah, I love it.
SAGAL: I know, I'm like...
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: I'm like, blah-dy, blah-dy, blah (ph).
(LAUGHTER)
ROCCA: Sorry about that.
SAGAL: It's all right.
ROCCA: You just don't get it. We have conventions. This is awesome.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: You all dress up as conductors. I know. As a matter of fact, I...
ADAM FELBER: If the purple line is going to be powered by dilithium, then...
(LAUGHTER)
TAKEI: Dilithium crystals.
FELBER: Yes.
TAKEI: I feel like - you know, I did a "Star Trek" convention right here in this room, and I feel like I'm doing one again.
SAGAL: It's kind of like that. Well, George Takei, we, obviously, are really excited to have you here, and we have invited you here to play a game we're calling...
CARL KASELL: Push, push. Come on, push.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: The theme of the week - family. Families usually begin with somebody getting born. So...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: People have been giving birth...
TAKEI: Push - I get it.
SAGAL: There you go.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: People have been giving birth to other people for millennia. It was only recently that science, modern science began to bear on the problem. We're going to ask you three questions about modern childbirth. Get two right, you'll win a prize for one of our listeners. Carl, who is George Takei playing for?
KASELL: George is playing for Clara Aranovitch (ph) of Los Angeles, Calif.
SAGAL: You ready to play?
(CHEERING)
TAKEI: All right.
SAGAL: All right. First question - there's a childbirth educator in Australia, and she recently discovered that her classes would be more attractive to men if she did what? If she, A, held them in pubs; if she, B, built a model of the womb out of chicken wing; or, C, taught the classes in the nude.
TAKEI: I think the third one.
SAGAL: The third one, taught the class in the nude?
TAKEI: In the nude. Am I right?
SAGAL: Men lined up - no, I'm afraid you were wrong. It was actually in pubs. She taught her childbirth classes in pubs.
TAKEI: Well, that was my second choice.
SAGAL: Yeah. I'm sure.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: At these pub-based birthing classes in Australia, dads-to-be learn about birthing techniques, etiquette and where the pub is so they can flee to it.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: All right. You still have two more chances. Next question - a leading French obstetrician claims that, contrary to conventional wisdom, the ideal birth environment involves no what? A, crying; B, men; or, C, babies.
(LAUGHTER)
ROCCA: You're allowed to ask advice from Roxanne. She's the only person here that had another person come out of her.
(LAUGHTER)
ROXANNE ROBERTS: I would - actually, I would say that men, for the most part, are not particularly helpful in...
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: No.
TAKEI: But they're usually there to help their wives along.
ROBERTS: No. This is a relatively recent innovation.
TAKEI: Well, I think men are necessary.
SAGAL: You think men are necessary?
TAKEI: Yes. If I'm wrong, I'm going to go down in flames.
SAGAL: Flaming. Yes. So you're going to choose...
ROCCA: What was that? Sorry, you're going to go down what?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Well, let me just summarize. I'm just going to summarize here. George, you're going to go down flaming 'cause you think men are necessary?
TAKEI: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Where we are...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...With this.
TAKEI: You really think I should change my answer?
SAGAL: I...
(CHEERING)
TAKEI: I'll go with the advice that I got from the only person here that's had that experience. I'll say men.
SAGAL: You're right.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Last question - a British think tank has suggested that all women should be entitled to maternity leave from their jobs even if, A, they don't have a job; B, they don't have children; or, C, they really, really don't want to go.
TAKEI: C.
SAGAL: You think that's the one?
TAKEI: That's the one.
ROBERTS: Oh, wait, wait, whoa.
ROCCA: Go back to the - yeah.
TAKEI: Oh, do I - can I get consulting service?
SAGAL: You may. Yes.
ROBERTS: Does he need consulting?
SAGAL: I don't know.
TAKEI: Yes. I do. I welcome it.
ROBERTS: Well, there is one possibility, which is that one thing that's been a point of contention is that women who don't have children and who work don't get time off...
ROCCA: Right.
ROBERTS: ...That's paid to be able to pursue other things. So there is that to think about.
SAGAL: That's a very solid case.
ROCCA: It's very - yeah.
SAGAL: So what's your choice going to be?
UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBERS: B.
TAKEI: B? If they don't have a child?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Is that your choice?
TAKEI: I mean, no. It doesn't make sense.
ROCCA: This is the first time he's hearing this.
SAGAL: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: At a certain point, you have to let a man steer his own ship.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So...
TAKEI: I am steady. I'm sticking with my original...
SAGAL: Steady at the helm.
TAKEI: ...Original answer, C.
SAGAL: And that is brave. And it is wonderful. And it is wrong.
TAKEI: Wrong.
ROCCA: It's wrong, right? Yeah.
TAKEI: Well, why would a woman with no child...
SAGAL: It's as - what Roxanne said is they felt that women...
ROCCA: Roxanne explained it.
SAGAL: ...Women should get the extra unpaid leave even if they don't choose to have children. That was the suggestion.
ROCCA: We didn't say it was a good suggestion.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: I just want to say I'm a little shocked 'cause I remember when Captain Kirk said go there, you said, yes, sir.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: There was none of this, but why do we want to go there, Captain?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Carl, how did George Takei do on our quiz?
KASELL: Well...
TAKEI: Terribly, terribly.
KASELL: George needed at least two correct answers to win. He had just one.
SAGAL: Well - oh.
TAKEI: Well, I apologize to the person that I was the surrogate for.
SAGAL: But there is...
ROCCA: And it's so sad. That poor woman's in her third trimester.
(LAUGHTER)
TAKEI: With no child.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: There are - no.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: George Takei is an actor and a public servant and a gentleman and one of my heroes. What a pleasure to have you with us. George Takei, ladies and gentlemen.
SAGAL: In 2012, we got the chance to talk to that goddess of the garden, the high priestess of homemaking, Martha Stewart.
KURTIS: Peter started by asking Ms. Stewart, given all the things she does, how would she describe herself?
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
MARTHA STEWART: Well, I am a teacher, and I teach people what they want and need to know all about living. And the subject is quite vast, so you have to be pretty good at a lot of different things to teach the subject of living.
SAGAL: I mean, you say people need to know.
STEWART: Yes.
SAGAL: Do people need to know how to make their own brass andirons from melted jewelry? I mean, that's - I mean, 'cause you do these incredibly elaborate things.
STEWART: Well, I don't think I've ever done that, but I have done metal. I think that people want to know how to do practical and everyday things, like how to get the pomegranate seeds out of a pomegranate. Do you know how to do that?
SAGAL: No. Tell me.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: OK. Take the point of a sharp, sharp knife.
SAGAL: Yeah.
STEWART: And just score through the skin. Make - and then quarter it, OK?
SAGAL: Yeah.
STEWART: Then break it into four quarters, the pomegranate. Turn the quarter of the pomegranate skin side up in the palm of your hand, and hit it with the back of a wooden spoon over a bowl. And if you just keep hitting that skin of the quartered pomegranate in your hand, all the seeds will fall out neatly into the bowl, and you will be left with an empty skin.
SAGAL: Right.
STEWART: You haven't bruised one of those beautiful, little, ruby-red seeds in the pomegranate.
SAGAL: I actually have a fairly serious question. I want...
STEWART: Yes.
SAGAL: ...You to imagine that you're invited by a friend, a close friend, somebody you're very easy and casual with over to dinner and they take out a pomegranate and they start removing the seeds incorrectly. Could you, Martha Stewart, in that situation which I have described, stop yourself from telling them how to do it better?
STEWART: No.
SAGAL: You couldn't do it.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: It would be hard. It would be hard.
SAGAL: You just don't have that gear. You can't...
STEWART: No.
SAGAL: ...Just stop and go...
STEWART: No, but it's fun. And they will love me forever...
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: ...Because I have solved a problem - a lifelong problem of how to get the [expletive] - oh, excuse me...
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: ...The seeds out of a pomegranate.
(APPLAUSE)
KURTIS: I guess it has been a problem.
SAGAL: Yeah. One of the things I admire so much about you is you make everything sort of excellent and classy and lovely no matter what you start with. And we had some challenges for you to see what you would think of to do with this.
STEWART: Oh, OK.
SAGAL: Here we go. So, for example, let's say I say, Martha, here's your project. Boom - on the table, a can of SPAM.
STEWART: What would I do with it?
SAGAL: Yes.
STEWART: Oh, I would open the can.
SAGAL: Yes.
STEWART: I would slice it into about, oh, between an eighth and a quarter of an inch slices, and I would fry it in butter, just lightly saute it in butter - nice butter, unsalted butter. And I would eat it with Dijon mustard on nice country white bread, crusty bread. It is delicious.
(LAUGHTER)
P J O'ROURKE: You were a bachelor guy in a former life 'cause...
SAGAL: I...
O'ROURKE: ...I've made that breakfast.
STEWART: Isn't it good?
SAGAL: First of all, you've done that - what you just described.
STEWART: I have. I mean, listen. I grew up in a family of...
SAGAL: All right.
STEWART: ...Six...
SAGAL: All right.
STEWART: ...Kids.
SAGAL: All right. It's time to throw down, Martha Stewart.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: Uh-oh (ph).
SAGAL: Velveeta.
STEWART: Oh, I love Velveeta.
SAGAL: Oh, come on.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: It's awful. I do, though. If I'm in somebody's house and they have Velveeta cheese, I do take a piece of it. And I really like it. I'm not kidding. But I have never bought it.
SAGAL: Ever.
STEWART: Never.
SAGAL: Well, Martha Stewart, we are delighted to have you with us. It is a pleasure to have you here. But we have asked you here today to play a game that we are calling...
KURTIS: It's a Bad Thing.
STEWART: Oh, my gosh.
SAGAL: So you're wonderful at helping people come up with great do-it-yourself projects. We're going to ask you about three not-so-great projects somebody really put together and displayed in the internet as helpfully collected by BuzzFeed. Get two questions right; you'll win our prize - Carl's voice on the home answering machine for one of our listeners, of course. Carl, who is Martha Stewart playing for?
KASELL: She's playing for Hannah Hudson of Takoma Park, Md.
SAGAL: All right.
STEWART: OK. Well, poor Hannah. She's probably going to not get your voice.
SAGAL: All right. Here we go.
STEWART: OK.
SAGAL: Here's your first question. People love to put logos on things on which they do not belong. One big fan of Louis Vuitton put their logo all over their what - A, their house; B, their wife; C, their assault rifle?
STEWART: Their house.
SAGAL: Their house. No, their assault rifle.
STEWART: Oh.
SAGAL: Next question. People love to reuse common household goods in their crafts, as I'm sure you know. There's a whole website out there devoted to making crafts out of spare what - A, fingernail clippings; B, tampons...
STEWART: Eww (ph).
SAGAL: ...C, sodium sulfate, a byproduct of paper mills?
STEWART: Fingernails.
SAGAL: I'm going to ask you something.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: If I came to you with a small container of fingernail clippings and said, make something, could you do it?
STEWART: Probably.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So are you going to stick with that answer - fingernail clippings?
STEWART: Yeah.
SAGAL: It's tampons.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: The website is called tamponcrafts.com. You can go there to learn how to make Christmas ornaments.
STEWART: I bet you could probably find a fingernail thing, too.
SAGAL: You're probably right.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: All right, Martha.
KURTIS: Yeah.
SAGAL: One last question. Let's see if we can get - pick this one up.
STEWART: OK.
SAGAL: People love to make homemade beauty products, so if you want something crafty for use in your bathroom, you could buy from Etsy, of course, A, tanning lotion made with real gravy; B, soap with real razor blades inside or, C, exfoliating wipes that are just squares of sandpaper.
STEWART: Maybe the exfoliating wipes.
SAGAL: You're going to stick with that.
STEWART: Yeah.
SAGAL: It was actually the soap with the razor blades.
KURTIS: Eww.
SAGAL: There's...
STEWART: That's very unpleasant. And they sell that on Etsy.
SAGAL: They do sell it on Etsy. Their soap - it's translucent soap, so you can see the razor blades inside. And these soaps are labeled for decorative purposes only.
STEWART: Oh, I don't like that.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: It's sort of like Hannibal Lecter.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Carl, how did Martha Stewart do on our quiz?
KASELL: She needed two correct answers to win for Hannah Hudson, but...
STEWART: Oh, Hannah, I'm so sorry.
KASELL: ...She had no correct answers.
STEWART: I'll do my voice for you, Hannah, any time.
SAGAL: Oh, yeah. Hannah, that's an offer.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Hi. This is Martha Stewart. Hannah's not here. She's out doing something useful.
STEWART: Oh, OK.
SAGAL: Something like that. Martha Stewart, thank you so much for joining us...
(APPLAUSE)
STEWART: Thank you - any time.
SAGAL: ...On WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME! What fun to talk to you.
STEWART: Thanks for having me.
SAGAL: Thank you, Martha.
STEWART: Bye-bye.
SAGAL: Bye-bye.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BAD TO THE BONE")
GEORGE THOROGOOD: (Singing) I'm here to tell you, honey, that I'm bad to the bone, bad to the bone, bad.
SAGAL: Coming up, we help you get ready for the big "Barbie" movie by talking with director Greta Gerwig. That's when we come back with more of WAIT WAIT...DON'T TELL ME! from NPR.
KURTIS: From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME, the NPR news quiz. I'm Bill Kurtis, and here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in downtown Chicago, Peter Sagal.
SAGAL: Thank you, Bill.
(CHEERING)
SAGAL: Thank you, everybody. So we have been doing this show for 25 years, so we were bound to come up with something great every once in a while.
KURTIS: Peter, I always say if our jokes don't work, let's talk to a country music superstar.
SAGAL: For example, in 2011, we went to Nashville to do our show with special guest Vince Gill, who was, surprisingly, a little nervous about it.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
VINCE GILL: I'm scared to death.
SAGAL: No, you shouldn't be scared to death.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: You've faced more hostile crowds than this and won them over.
GILL: I am not the brightest guy. My junior year in high school was the hardest three years of my life.
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: So we know. You know, this being NPR and all, I've lived here for nearly 30 years, and Nashville is a great city for charity.
SAGAL: Yeah.
GILL: I figured this will be another in my long list of things that I've done in my career that - once again, I won't be paid for it.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Yeah. There you go. You came to Nashville a long time ago - 30 years ago, thereabouts?
GILL: Yeah. I moved here in '83. My first trip here was in 1974. I made my first record here in 1975 and then moved here in '83.
SAGAL: You've won how many Grammys? Do you even know?
GILL: Twenty.
SAGAL: Twenty. He knows.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: I underestimated him. But country music, stereotypically, is about hard times. You know, the classic joke is my wife left me, my dog died, my truck won't start. Is it hard to maintain that perspective when you're as successful as you are? Have you written a song like my Mercedes S-Class won't start?
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: I think with anything attached to humor, out of that, out of the songs that I've written, one was with Rodney Crowell, the title was actually inspired by my father. It's called, "It's Hard To Kiss The Lips At Night That Chew Your Ass Out All Day Long."
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: You don't need a song. That title right there will you get it. What does your wife, the fabulous singer, Ms. Amy Grant, think of that song, may I say?
GILL: Well, she has a good sense of humor, thank God.
SAGAL: Yeah.
GILL: But I do remember the day that I came home and wrote - after I'd written that song. And I got home, and Amy was waiting for me and she said, where you been? I said, well - I said, I was out at Rodney's today, and we were working on a song, and we wrote a song. She goes, oh, let me hear it.
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: I said, well, I don't really remember it too good.
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: I haven't got it memorized. You know, we were just kind of messing with a few ideas. And against my better judgment...
SAGAL: Yeah.
GILL: ...I sang this song for Amy Grant, my wife.
SAGAL: Did you really?
GILL: Yeah, one of the more popular Christian singers.
SAGAL: Yes.
GILL: So...
SAGAL: And her feelings about it were?
GILL: Well, it took a while to make her understand that it was the idea of my father's before he passed away in '97. So it sadly dawned upon me that, evidently, the song was inspired by my dear mother.
SAGAL: Oh, yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: She hates that particular song.
SAGAL: Yeah. We know that you have a pretty clean image, squeaky clean, in fact. And you're also a big golfer. And we heard that to protect your squeaky-clean image, you actually brought somebody out to swear for you on the golf course.
GILL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: You did that?
GILL: I was a little arrogant. I was doing really good. And I said, I need a designated cusser.
SAGAL: Really?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So what did you do? How did you find that person?
GILL: They're everywhere.
SAGAL: Yeah, I know.
(LAUGHTER)
FELBER: You must have been tempted to write a song about golf at some point or another, though, right?
GILL: There's one that was - I was talking - well, I shouldn't say this, but - because Paul McCartney told me never drop names. But...
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: I'm actually...
SAGAL: I'm going to steal that.
GILL: Amy and I have the good fortune of this July 4 weekend, that we're going to get to go spend it with James Taylor in Massachusetts at a place called Tanglewood. And we were talking on the phone today about songs, and he - I mentioned that I'd been playing golf, and he said, well, there's never been any golf songs. And I said, yeah, probably not. There's one that I know of. It was called "Golf's A Bitch And Then You Die."
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: One last question. You've hosted the Country Music Awards for 12 years straight?
GILL: I did back in the early '90s...
SAGAL: Really?
GILL: ...12 years.
SAGAL: Wow. I've been known to host some things myself. Do you have any tips for me?
GILL: You're doing great.
SAGAL: Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: You're doing great.
SAGAL: Wow.
GILL: You got 3 million people listening to you.
SAGAL: I know.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: But still, that's amazing, same award ceremony, 12 years. They must have loved you.
GILL: It was fun. I had a good time doing it, and it wasn't hard. I just brought people on, took people off and cracked a few jokes and went home. It wasn't that tough.
SAGAL: Wow.
(LAUGHTER)
FELBER: Wow. You just made Peter's job sound easy.
SAGAL: I know. Vince Gill, we are so delighted to have you with us...
GILL: Thank you.
SAGAL: ...Here in Nashville. We've invited you here to play a game that today we're calling...
KASELL: (Laughter).
SAGAL: Carl Kasell, everybody.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Vince, Meet Vincent - Vincent Price, that is. We're going to ask you three questions about the career of Vincent Price. Get two right, you'll win our prize for one of our listeners, Carl's voice on the home answering machine. Carl, who is Vince Gill playing for?
KASELL: He is playing for Carrie Burgess Brown (ph) of Nashville.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: All right. You ready to do this?
GILL: Yes. Make a fool of me.
SAGAL: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Vince, Vincent Price grew up in a distinguished family. What was his grandfather's claim to fame? Was it A, he ran St. Louis's most successful and busy mortuary business; B, he invented baking powder; or C, he single-handedly killed 100,000 bison, a record at the time?
GILL: I thought it was Fisher-Price toys all these years.
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: Baking powder.
SAGAL: You're right. His grandfather...
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: ...Invented baking powder.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: It was called Dr. Price's Cream Baking Powder - big product in the late 19th century, made millions of dollars, lost it all. All right. You got one right. Next question - Vincent Price starred in a lot of horror movies, as you know, some of which, though - they were pretty obscure, including which one of these? A, "Bloodbath At The House Of Death"; B, "Scream, Screaming Person, Scream"...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or C, an educational film for the U.S. Marine Corps called "What's Really Scary? Gonorrhea"?
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: A.
SAGAL: You're going to go for A, "Bloodbath At The House Of Death"? You're right.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: Very good.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: That was great. It was a 1983 British horror spoof. You ever seen it? You seemed pretty confident, no?
GILL: No. No.
SAGAL: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Last question - see if you can go for perfect. Like many celebrities, Vincent Price lent his name to products and services, including which of these? A, the Vincent Price collection of fine art from Sears Roebuck; B, the Vincent Rice Cooker; or C, the Vincent Price Home Blood Glucose Monitor?
(LAUGHTER)
GILL: I just like that one. I'm going with that one.
SAGAL: The Vincent Price Home Blood Glucose Monitor.
GILL: No.
SAGAL: No, you're not going to go with that?
GILL: OK, I'm going with A.
SAGAL: You're going to go with A, the Vincent Price collection of fine art from Sears Roebuck? Yes, indeed.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: Well done.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Vincent Price - for those of you old enough to remember, he was a famous art connoisseur, and he curated a collection of art that you could buy at Sears. Carl, how did Vince Gill do on our quiz?
KASELL: Vince had three correct answers, Peter, and that's good enough to win for Carrie Burgess Brown. Congratulations, Vince.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Well done.
GILL: So I got to ask you.
SAGAL: Yeah, ask me it. Yeah.
GILL: How did the saxophone player do last week? He get all three?
SAGAL: So Bill Clinton?
GILL: Did he get all three?
SAGAL: Yeah, Bill Clinton - yeah, known primarily for playing the sax. He did. He got all three. And he didn't mess around. He just knew them. It was really weird. Yeah.
GILL: So you're saying I could be president?
SAGAL: I'm saying...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Vince Gill is a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame, a legend here in his home, Nashville. Vince Gill, thank you so much for being with us today.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHAT THE COWGIRLS DO")
GILL: (Singing) I love it when they let their hair down and dance real close to you. You know I'm a sucker, baby, for what the cowgirls do.
SAGAL: Finally, everybody is excited for the big-budget "Barbie" movie coming out in just a few weeks. And if you've already prepped for the premiere by buying a pink wardrobe, well, there's one more thing you can do. Listen to this 2017 interview with the movie's director, Greta Gerwig, live on stage in Seattle.
KURTIS: Peter asked her about the source of her inspiration for her first hit film, "Lady Bird."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
SAGAL: So you grew up in Sacramento, Calif...
GRETA GERWIG: That's right.
(CHEERING)
SAGAL: ...Where you went to a Catholic high school...
GERWIG: Yeah.
SAGAL: ...Graduating in the early 2000s.
GERWIG: Yeah.
SAGAL: The movie is about a quirky, artistically minded young woman...
GERWIG: Yes.
SAGAL: ...Who's in Sacramento in the early 2000s, going to a Catholic...
GERWIG: Yeah.
SAGAL: ...High school.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Where did you ever come up with that?
GERWIG: It's my florid imagination.
SAGAL: I know.
GERWIG: No, actually, it's - I mean, Sacramento is me and where I'm from, and I love it, but, actually, I was kind of the opposite of Lady Bird. I was...
SAGAL: Really?
GERWIG: Yeah. Well, there's similarities, but, in a way, I sort of invented this heroine that I had no ability to be.
SAGAL: Did you ever, for example, hurl yourself out of a car in the middle of an argument with your mother?
GERWIG: The car was just idling. It was not...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So wait a minute.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: The case you are making, that this is no - in no way an autobiographical film...
GERWIG: Yeah.
SAGAL: ...Is, unlike the character in the movie who throws her out of a moving car in the midst of an argument with her mother...
GERWIG: These are very important distinctions.
SAGAL: ...Very different.
GERWIG: Yeah.
SAGAL: In your case, when you hurled yourself out of the car in the middle of an argument with your mother, the car was only idling.
(LAUGHTER)
GERWIG: Yes, yes.
SAGAL: It wasn't moving.
GERWIG: No, it wasn't moving. We were...
SAGAL: Well, that would be crazy.
GERWIG: Yeah. We were...
SAGAL: Yeah.
GERWIG: And I just exited the car, you know?
SAGAL: Yeah.
GERWIG: I didn't...
(LAUGHTER)
GERWIG: I didn't hurl myself. I just stepped out.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: And how interesting would that be?
GERWIG: It's not as good. It's not as cinematic.
SAGAL: One of the best things - or at least fascinating things to me in the movie is the relationship between Lady Bird and her mother because they both fight all the time and they adore each other. And they're able to go from one to the other like that, which is both completely bizarre and utterly believable, which is an achievement on your part.
GERWIG: Thank you.
SAGAL: And so I have to ask...
GERWIG: Yeah.
SAGAL: ...Is that or was that your relationship with your mother?
GERWIG: No. I mean, we had - my mother is different than the character that Laurie plays, as I was different from Lady Bird. But we did have - we were very gifted at both being able to really yell at each other and then get over it right away. We did have that. And I would realize that everyone around us would be sort of traumatized. And we were like, oh, no, we're fine. This is great. This is what we do.
(LAUGHTER)
GERWIG: We fight like that, and then we're fine.
SAGAL: Has your mother - I assume your mother has seen the film?
GERWIG: Oh, yeah. She's seen it six times.
SAGAL: Yeah.
GERWIG: Yeah, she loves it.
SAGAL: Has she ever, you know, congratulated you and been so proud of you and then say, was I that mean to you?
GERWIG: No, no. So - 'cause she knows more than anyone else which parts of it are made up and which parts of it are real. And she knew that I was creating something that was, like, based on something true, but also it became fictional.
SAGAL: And do you know what you're going to do next? I mean, I know it's a terrible thing to ask. You've just finished this. It's out in the world.
GERWIG: Oh, yeah. Direct another picture.
SAGAL: Yeah. Do you know, one of the things that happens, it seems, is that young, talented, independent directors who make a successful movie on a low budget are immediately handed enormous Hollywood blockbusters. Have you picked yours?
GERWIG: Oh, my enormous Hollywood blockbuster (laughter)?
SAGAL: Yeah. The big, like - what's your comic book?
LUKE BURBANK: "Lady Bird: Ragnarok"?
SAGAL: Yeah.
GERWIG: Yeah, "Ragnarok."
(LAUGHTER)
GERWIG: Exactly. No, I have not picked my blockbuster. That hasn't happened yet.
SAGAL: Yeah.
GERWIG: But get ready.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Well, Greta Gerwig, we are so happy to talk to you at this time, but we have also invited you here to play a game we're calling...
KURTIS: Polly want a cracker?
SAGAL: So your movie is about a fierce young woman who - she calls herself Lady Bird. So we thought we'd ask you about real lady birds.
GERWIG: What does that mean?
SAGAL: Well...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: This is what it means. We're going to ask you these three questions about female birds - actual birds, actual female birds.
GERWIG: OK.
SAGAL: Answer two out of three correctly, you'll win our prize, the voice of any of us on the voicemail of one of our listeners. Bill, who is Greta Gerwig playing for?
KURTIS: Paula Menges (ph) of Seattle, Wash.
SAGAL: There you are.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Here's your first question. The female hedge sparrow has an interesting mating behavior. Before it mates with a male hedge sparrow, she does what? A, she demands the male give her a garment of leaves that takes four days to make; B, she, quote, "talks" with the male's prior female partners to see if it's a decent bird...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or C, she hides another male hedge sparrow in the bushes nearby and then invites him over when the first bird leaves?
(LAUGHTER)
GERWIG: Oh, I guess I'll go with C?
SAGAL: Yeah. That's the one.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
GERWIG: OK.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: They're - here's what the hedge sparrow does. The hedge sparrow hides its, like, guy on the side in the bushes, does it with number one. He goes away. She calls out the side guy she hid. They do it. Then she calls back the first one.
GERWIG: Oh, man.
SAGAL: Yeah.
KONDABOLU: A literal side chick.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Exactly. All right, next question. Female birds are attracted to males in various ways, including, of course, we know about plumage, like the peacock, dances. But the female palm cockatoo of Australia chooses the mate who performs the best what? A, the best drum solo, B, the best juggling act, or C, the best comedy routine?
(LAUGHTER)
GERWIG: A, drum solo?
SAGAL: You're right.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: That's exactly right.
SAGAL: The male palm cuckoo - excuse me - the male palm cockatoo bites off a bit of branch and then drums it against the tree trunk until the female shows up who likes the sound.
GERWIG: Wow.
SAGAL: Yeah.
NEGIN FARSAD: Same.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Last question. Maybe the most clever female bird is the cuckoo, which does what? A, famously invented a clock...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...B, she puts her eggs in another bird's nest, so somebody else has to raise them while she enjoys herself; or C, she stays single her whole life so she can really enjoy herself?
GERWIG: I'm going to go with B.
SAGAL: Yes.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: That's right, Greta.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Cuckoo birds put their eggs in another bird's nest, and then they go clubbing. It's a great evolutionary strategy.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: How did Greta Gerwig do on our quiz?
KURTIS: Well, she got the trifecta, for God's sake. She got them all right.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Greta Gerwig has been the star and co-writer of the movies "Frances Ha" and "Mistress America," but she is the writer and director who made "Lady Bird," which is in theaters right now. Greta Gerwig, thank you so much for joining us on WAIT WAIT.
(APPLAUSE)
GERWIG: Thank you.
SAGAL: Greta Gerwig, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you.
GERWIG: Thanks.
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