< In the time travel series 'Bodies,' one crime happens four times

GLEN WELDON, HOST:

The new Netflix series "Bodies" has a great hook. The same murdered corpse turns up in the same London location in four different time periods. The detectives assigned to the cases don't know it, but their investigations are inextricably linked to the same dark secret that can change the world forever. I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about "Bodies" on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR.

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WELDON: Joining me today is the host of WBEZ's Nerdette podcast, which is celebrating its 10th anniversary this year, Greta Johnsen. Hey, Greta.

GRETA JOHNSEN, BYLINE: Hi, Glen.

WELDON: Hey. Also with us is Ronald Young Jr. He is the host of the film and television review podcast "Leaving The Theater" and of the recently launched podcast "Weight For It." Hey, Ronald.

WELDON: Know you are loved, Glen.

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UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) Know you are loved.

JOHNSEN: (Laughter).

WELDON: Know I am loved. On that note, in "Bodies," a naked, dead body that's been shot through the eye appears in the same alley in London's East End in four different time periods. The detectives assigned to investigate are all outsiders in different ways. In 1890, Victorian detective Alfred Hillinghead, played by Kyle Soller, is a family man whose closeted queer desire threatens to destroy his life and career.

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GEORGE PARKER: (As Henry Ashe) Alfred, have you any wish to discuss what happened last night...

KYLE SOLLER: (As Alfred Hillinghead) What happened was a mistake.

PARKER: (As Henry Ashe) ...At my house? You kissed me.

WELDON: In 1941, Jacob Fortune-Lloyd plays Charles Whiteman, a slick, handsome cop on the take who's the subject of antisemitic bigotry from his fellow officers.

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JACOB FORTUNE-LLOYD: (As Charles Whiteman) I heard they hit the synagogue last night.

JONNY COYNE: (As Farrell) It's a shame. Not a racket going to protect your lot from the Luftwaffe.

FORTUNE-LLOYD: (As Charles Whiteman) I think Farrell has a problem with me, sir.

COYNE: (As Farrell) Our department has a problem with you.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Enough.

WELDON: In 2023, detective Shahara Hasan is a single mother and a Muslim who wears her heart on her sleeve. She's played by Amaka Okafor.

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AMAKA OKAFOR: (As Shahara Hasan) I promised his sister I'd keep him safe. How the f*** did this happen?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As character) Shahara, don't you dare start thinking like that.

WELDON: And in the future of 2053, Shira Haas plays detective Iris Maplewood, a disabled woman whose loyalties to the society's charismatic utopian leader has netted her a comfortable life and the tech that allows her to walk.

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SHIRA HAAS: (As Iris Maplewood) I believe in your world, sir, what you're trying to achieve.

STEPHEN GRAHAM: (As Elias Mannix) No. Be honest.

HAAS: (As Iris Maplewood) I wanted...

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HAAS: (As Iris Maplewood) ...To walk.

WELDON: There's more to that charismatic leader, played by Stephen Graham, than meets the eye, a fact that each detective in their different time periods comes to learn over the course of the series - eight twisty and suspenseful episodes. "Bodies" is streaming now on Netflix. Greta, kick us off. What did you think?

JOHNSEN: OK, well, Glen, if you say the phrase, time travel murder mystery, I am just, like, extremely all in, a hundred percent.

WELDON: Got you.

JOHNSEN: I loved the acting. I thought the script was great. I thought the directing was great, the casting. Like, I thought it was all very well-done. I'm not sure the plot actually made sense. And...

WELDON: Yeah.

JOHNSEN: I'm a little worried this is still copaganda. But all in all, I thought it was a great ride. I think the fact that they released all eight episodes at once is wonderful because this is, like, a solidly excellent binge.

WELDON: Agreed, agreed. What about you, Ronald?

RONALD YOUNG JR: I didn't like it. I liked it, but I really didn't like it. It's...

WELDON: All right.

YOUNG: I'm so - I'm kind of - I'm as confused as the plot, I guess I would say...

WELDON: Say more. Say more.

JOHNSEN: Yeah. Yeah.

YOUNG: ...Because, you know, it was a very slow start. It was a very slow start. Like, the first four episodes - I'm just like, come on, y'all. Get to the point. I mean, I know what y'all are doing. I get it. This person is dead in four different time periods. You already had me hooked. I was in there with you. And then it just kind of plods along and just - plodding, plodding, plodding. And then the last four episodes, it picks up. It picks up in a way that I wish they would have spread out over eight episodes, and I think I would have been with it a little more. It also kind of veers into this very sci-fi television show in the early 2000 territory, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm a big fan of "Warehouse 13."

JOHNSEN: Yeah. Yeah.

WELDON: Sure.

YOUNG: Y'all know what I'm talking about.

JOHNSEN: I was going to say...

YOUNG: It's not necessarily a bad thing. But it kind of - it changed the tone so much because I think it's billed as, like, a genre-bending show. And I remember watching it, immediately being like, this really isn't a police procedural at all.

WELDON: Yeah.

YOUNG: But because I felt like I was being pulled in different ways with the kind of slow pacing versus the really high sci-fi elements, you know, I just - I didn't necessarily feel like it really stuck for me.

WELDON: OK. I mean, getting pulled in different ways is kind of - it's kind of the theme of the show. So...

YOUNG: It's true.

WELDON: Look.

YOUNG: It's true.

WELDON: I did get sucked into this. I really like the performances, as Greta mentioned. I thought the hook was great. I also thought that, episode to episode, the structure of the show - which, when you think about it, if you're adapting a graphic novel by Si Spencer and various artists and it's juggling four different stories that have to speak to each other somehow - I thought that was really sharp. I especially thought that every episode ended in a way that made you have to click next episode...

YOUNG: That is true.

WELDON: ...Which is the goal. That said, it is Netflix. Usual Netflix rules apply, to your point, Ronald. Eight episodes could have been six - should have been six. But what I do like is that - and let's offer this reassurance to folks. This isn't one of those series that tries to tell a story but leave itself open for a Season 2. This story...

YOUNG: Yes.

WELDON: ...Is done.

YOUNG: Yes.

WELDON: So without getting specific, Greta, did you think it stuck the landing?

JOHNSEN: I think it stuck the landing if I don't think about it too hard. And...

WELDON: OK.

JOHNSEN: I would say I'm OK with that.

WELDON: OK. What about you, Ronald?

YOUNG: No, I do not think it stuck the landing (laughter).

WELDON: OK. All right. Good.

JOHNSEN: You're just thinking about it too hard, Ronald.

YOUNG: But I don't want that to carry too much weight because I still think people should watch it. When you do a time travel movie, you set your own rules, and then it has to follow those rules. If it breaks them, it's weird. This one - I don't know that it actually set any rules. It messed with me a little bit. I was just like, well, is this villain a villain? Or I don't think this villain is a villain. I think this villain may be just misguided. Like, what? You know, I was just - I felt very disoriented. Disoriented - I think that's the word I would use...

WELDON: Ah.

YOUNG: ...For this. I felt very disoriented.

JOHNSEN: The villain just wants to be loved, Ron.

YOUNG: Obviously.

WELDON: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

YOUNG: You're correct, Greta.

WELDON: OK.

YOUNG: You're absolutely correct. I got that.

WELDON: Well, disoriented is kind of the magic word because when this graphic novel came out, many of the reviews said it was confusing and it didn't really, you know, make cohesive sense. And we should point out that the graphic novel brings in even more crap. There's cults and shamanism, and there's Jack the Ripper.

JOHNSEN: Oh, right.

YOUNG: That's interesting.

WELDON: And I kept waiting for Jack the Ripper to show up.

JOHNSEN: Same.

WELDON: I didn't have a problem with it. There were timelines that I was more drawn to than others that I thought were more compelling.

JOHNSEN: For sure.

YOUNG: Yes.

JOHNSEN: For sure.

WELDON: Greta, what were you drawn to? What were you not quite as vibing on?

JOHNSEN: Well, I mean, I think when it comes to the timelines, I do - I mean, this was a very British show in a number of ways. I do think, like, Jack the Ripper era and then also, like, prewar kind of blitz era are both, you know, like...

WELDON: Yeah.

JOHNSEN: ...Extremely overwrought in a number of ways. I think, especially our closeted police officer, it just didn't quite land for me. And it's funny, Ronald, especially to hear you talk about how, like, you felt like, you know, some of them moved really slowly because I agree with you. And also in some instances, I wish we had gotten just a little bit more backstory from some of these officers to really understand, like, the weight of the context that they were working with. Even though I also don't actually want it to be any longer (laughter), if that makes sense.

YOUNG: It kind of felt like they were doing character development on the fly because, like...

JOHNSEN: Yeah.

YOUNG: ...You know, when we meet that police officer, we immediately know that they are a person who follows the letter of the law based on their interaction...

JOHNSEN: Right.

YOUNG: ...With someone who's stealing food for some reason. So we know this person is by the book, which - and they do that kind of with all of them. Where they - they're kind of like inserting this on-the-fly character development as they go.

WELDON: A shorthand, yeah.

YOUNG: And I totally get why, because they have so much to tell us in eight episodes. I think what I was thinking about when I watched this was the movie "Cloud Atlas."

JOHNSEN: Yes.

YOUNG: Which I did not like the movie "Cloud Atlas." I loved the book "Cloud Atlas."

WELDON: (Laughter).

YOUNG: I loved it.

JOHNSEN: Beautiful book.

WELDON: Yeah. Yeah.

JOHNSEN: Beautiful book.

YOUNG: It was well done. But when they tried to translate it, there was a lot of jumping around. And I feel like the fact that the book nests the stories inside of one another is still something that I'd like to see. And I think this show might have had an opportunity to do more of that in a way that kind of, like, left me feeling less disoriented. But there's still parts of the show that I'm still thinking about. To answer your question, I was really drawn to the 2053 timeline. I was like, OK, what's going on here? This is all as a result of what happened before. I was also drawn to the present timeline. So maybe the I'm just exposing that I'm not a period piece person, so (laughter) maybe...

JOHNSEN: No, but I'm with you. I thought those felt more - I mean, maybe they were just more accessible from our point of view, which I think...

YOUNG: Yeah. Yeah.

JOHNSEN: ...You know, wouldn't not make sense. I think also to your point, Ronald, like some of the "reveals" - I'm going to put reveals in quotes - because they should have been reveals. For example, in the 2053 timeline, like, it turns out the neighbor has, like, sort of this ulterior role that you wouldn't have expected. And it's like...

YOUNG: Yeah.

JOHNSEN: ...That was another one that just didn't feel - like, it should have been kind of, oh, wow, I had no idea the neighbor was going to blah, blah. But in this case, it was sort of like, eh.

YOUNG: They're like, oh, yeah...

JOHNSEN: OK...

YOUNG: ...That makes sense.

JOHNSEN: ...I guess that's - you know?

WELDON: Yeah. She was shifty from the jump. I kind of vibe with the 1890 timeline the best.

JOHNSEN: Did you?

WELDON: Maybe because I love what Kyle Soller is doing. I'm such a fan of him from "Andor."

JOHNSEN: He's...

YOUNG: Yeah.

JOHNSEN: ...A phenomenal actor.

WELDON: And I just - he's phenomenal. He's so good and so conflicted. I thought that 2023 storyline was interesting. I thought, you know, Okafor really grounded that performance. Was there maybe a little too much the power of love stuff for my black and tiny heart?

(LAUGHTER)

WELDON: Maybe.

YOUNG: I was wondering how you felt about that, Glen. I'm like, that's not Glen's thing (laughter).

WELDON: Yeah. It's not my thing. I had - I also had trouble getting a bead on what Shira Haas was doing in the 2053 timeline.

JOHNSEN: Yeah.

WELDON: Maybe I was distracted by the hair and the eyebrows or lack of some - yeah.

JOHNSEN: That hair really bugged me.

YOUNG: The makeup was terrible.

WELDON: It really bugged me. I thought the timeline was interesting. I thought the production design was interesting.

JOHNSEN: Same.

WELDON: The outlier for me, though, was the 1941 timeline. I thought...

YOUNG: Yeah.

WELDON: ...Jacob Fortune-Lloyd was great...

JOHNSEN: Yeah.

WELDON: ...And he was really playing, you know, a slick jerk. That was the one timeline that had me wondering, why are we here? How is this going to get factored in? I could kind of tell how the other three were going to zoom together. I had no idea what was going on there. We eventually find out, but I don't know if it justifies its presence.

YOUNG: I had to be reminded, actually. I remember thinking, really though? Like, this could have been anything.

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YOUNG: I don't really know. Like, really? But I really like...

WELDON: Yeah.

YOUNG: ...The guy. The guy was charming so...

WELDON: That was the one.

JOHNSEN: Well, and I think that's another instance of, like, the character I kept kind of comparing him to was the main dude in "The Last Of Us"...

YOUNG: Yes. Yes.

JOHNSEN: ...Who - like, he doesn't want to be a thug, but he has fought so hard to survive for so long, and it turns out he's kind of good at it, that he ends up, like, embodying that role. But it felt like I was creating that extrapolation more than it actually existed in the show, which I found kind of frustrating. That was another one where I was like, if we had had, like, just a little more backstory around what this dude had been through and even why he was crooked in the first place, I think it would - it could have gone a really long way.

WELDON: Yeah.

JOHNSEN: I mean, I do think we should take just a moment to talk about why the time travel machine is called The Throat (laughter).

WELDON: Yeah. I mean, they could have picked any...

YOUNG: They could have said anything, Glen (laughter).

WELDON: ...There was a lot of - they could have said anything, and they went with Throat. Yeah.

JOHNSEN: Ronald, I have to say I love what you said earlier about, like, the establishing of the rules thing 'cause I think you really are - I think that's exactly what happened. You know, and I think it kind of speaks to what I was saying too, with like, if you don't think about it too hard, it's fine. But once you really start being like, OK, wait, but if there is free will or not, and then the circle - and it's unavoidable - but somehow it is - but only in this one specific instance even though they say they try. It's just like, oh yeah, no. It doesn't actually work.

WELDON: You're both right. At any point, any time travel narrative has to get to this part where we just wave our hands.

YOUNG: (Laughter) Wave our hands.

WELDON: No, no, no, don't worry.

JOHNSEN: Look over here.

WELDON: We set up our own rules and then we go, yeah, it's also...

YOUNG: (Laughter).

WELDON: ...The wizard did it. And then we just plow through.

JOHNSEN: Another show it reminded me a lot of, that I really liked, but Ronald, I imagine you probably hated too, is this Canadian show "Continuum," which came out like about a decade ago, which also involves cops...

WELDON: Oh, right.

JOHNSEN: ...And time travel.

WELDON: Sure.

JOHNSEN: And I haven't seen it since then. It could be absolute trash. But I remember - I think it's quite similar. It has kind of a similar like propulsive, like, movement towards a large terrorist event. That's all I'll say. I found it very satisfying.

YOUNG: So it's funny, we're talking about the shows I didn't like. When I thought about this show, what I actually thought it was a cross of was "Cloud Atlas" and "Class Of '09," which just was on FX.

WELDON: Oh, right.

YOUNG: Now, I really liked the "Class Of '09," which wasn't really - it's not really a time travel, but it is time jumping in its...

WELDON: Sure.

YOUNG: ...Narrative. I really like the "Class Of '09," and I thought it worked in the ways they were telling the story. That's what this kind of was reminiscent of. But now I think I want to check out "Continuum" so...

JOHNSEN: Yeah. Check it out.

YOUNG: I never saw it, so I can't have seen it to hate it, Greta, so yeah.

JOHNSEN: (Laughter) Perfect.

WELDON: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's connect the dots here. I think we all dig this show, and I think we suggest you check it out. We also suggest not thinking...

(LAUGHTER)

WELDON: ...About it too...

YOUNG: Agreed.

WELDON: ...Hard. Just let it go. Let it wash over you because there's some really great performances in here.

We want to know what you think about "Bodies," however. Find us at facebook.com/pchh. That brings us to the end of our show. Greta Johnsen, Ronald Young Jr., thank you so much for being here.

YOUNG: Thanks for having me.

JOHNSEN: Thank you.

WELDON: This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathima and Liz Metzger, and edited by Mike Katzif and Jessica Reedy. And Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all tomorrow.

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