STEVE INSKEEP, Host:
Frances Townsend, a White House aide, said this week that the U.S. is attacking al-Qaida everywhere possible.
M: The fact is we were harassing them in Afghanistan. We're harassing them in Iraq. We're harassing them in other ways, non-militarily, around the world. And the answer is, every time you poke the hornet's nest, they are bound to come back and push back on you. That doesn't suggest to me that we shouldn't be doing it.
INSKEEP: Richard Haass has dealt with terror threats from Afghanistan to Northern Ireland for the U.S. State Department. He is now president of the Council on Foreign Relations. Mr. Haass, welcome to the program.
M: Thank you.
INSKEEP: Strictly in terms of its effect on al-Qaida, the global organization, does Iraq count as a positive or a negative for the United States right now?
M: Iraq is clear negative. You could almost say if Afghanistan was Terrorism 101 in their university, Iraq has become Terrorism 201. It is the advanced course in urban terrorism in particular. And it's also been something of a galvanizing cry or call for terrorists. Iraq was not a state involved in terrorism five years ago. It might be the only positive thing one could say about Saddam Hussein. So, on that, Iraq has been a setback for the United States in the war on terrorism.
INSKEEP: Well, how do you deal with that if you're an American strategist? Because Frances Townsend has pointed out this week that you can't necessarily back away from a fight just because people might take advantage of it in this way?
M: It's a little bit like struggling against disease. You do what you can to attack it. You do what you can to increase your ability to be resilient, to recover from it. But it's an open-ended struggle. And like disease, it's one we're going to have to live with, probably, for the rest of our lives.
INSKEEP: Could you imagine an entirely different approach to attacking al-Qaida? Back away from Iraq even perhaps quiet down in Afghanistan and approach the parliament some entirely different way? Is there any different way?
M: I would contrast them with the success the United States and Britain and Ireland have had over the last decade, say, with the IRA. Where, over the years, we were able to reach a political accommodation and persuade 95 percent of those who are associated with the IRA to give up terrorism and to turn to traditional politics.
INSKEEP: So you're saying you can't negotiate with them. You're also saying that there are negative effects - blowback, if you will - if you attack them directly and don't do it in the right way. Is there perhaps a more clever way to attack this terrorist organization that is being tried right now?
M: And that's where you get into tools that have nothing to do with the military, Steve, but instead you're looking at things like education. It's where you're looking at political and economic opportunity. It's where you're trying to influence the debate within Islam.
INSKEEP: So much of that has been said over and over again since, oh, about September 12th, 2001. How is it that so much of that remains undone?
M: To try to win an ideological battle gets you into a softer area. It's not necessarily the sort of thing that governments are well designed to do. Some of the more interesting things are actually where we're making progress come from other groups. For example, certain foundations, The Carnegie Foundation has been translating classical works of liberal Islamic thought and Arab thought, making them available in local languages, putting them on the Internet for free. And that's the sort of thing that, over time, could help influence the intellectual debate within the Arab world, within the Islamic world. Essentially, it's small-bore stuff. It doesn't transform a situation immediately. But it's the sort of thing that modestly, over time, can perhaps make a difference.
INSKEEP: Richard Haass of the Council on Foreign Relations. Thanks very much.
M: Thank you, Steve.
INSKEEP: Mr. Haass was an adviser to both Bush administrations. Most recently, he was director of policy planning at the State Department from 2001 to 2003.
Copyright © 2007 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.