GUY RAZ, host:
New York University just released a collection of the personal papers of Philip Agee. He was a rogue CIA agent who famously exposed secret coup attempts, assassinations, and even the names of agents when he published a book called "Inside the Company" in 1975. He died in exile in Cuba in 2008.
Now, as you can imagine, Agee was vilified by the CIA as a traitor, but it turns out his tales of murder and corruption became a kind of recruiting tool used by the agency, and it happened to Bob Baer. He was another former CIA agent. And in the late 1970s, Baer was a student at Berkeley when he was summoned to a hotel room in San Francisco to meet a CIA recruiter.
Mr. ROBERT BAER (Former CIA Agent; Author, "The Devil We Know: Dealing with the New Iranian Superpower"): At the end of this recruitment pitch, he said, you know, without an M.A. or a Ph.D., I don't really see we have a place for you as an analyst. But how about being an operative? And I had no idea what he was talking about. And he pulled this book out by Phil Agee, "Inside the Company," said, here, read this.
RAZ: So he gave you this book that was basically an expose of the CIA by a rogue operative who was considered a traitor. This recruiter gives you the book and says, read this. He uses it as a recruiting tool.
Mr. BAER: Well, I'm pretty sure he wanted to see how open-minded I was, you know? I think if I would've said, hey, this is great. Let's overthrow governments in Latin America and, you know, repress democracies and so on. You know, I want to be a CIA assassin or something like that, it's a good opportunity for the CIA to call out the people on the margins, as far as I can tell.
But, you know, for me, it was interesting because it opened up a world that I had no idea that existed. I was just a dumb college student. And I said, hey, this is fascinating.
RAZ: Now, he, of course, you know, portrays the CIA as a pretty evil institution. He talks about assassinations in Latin America and political manipulations. You say that's all just rubbish, that Agee's account is just wrong.
Mr. BAER: We found out after "Inside the Company" came out - this took years to find out - his life had fallen apart, and he didn't know what he was going to do when he got out in 1968, and started adopting this leftist ideology in Latin America. And he hooked up with these leftist circles. And when he wrote "Inside the Company," we knew that the editor, his personal editor, was a Cuban agent.
So his recruitment came about fairly slowly. And finally, he was introduced to a Cuban intelligence officer who said, hey, why don't you come work for us, Cuba. And he agreed and he then spilled his guts.
I think you can be as critical as you want of the CIA. I'm critical of it for incompetence, for missing 9/11, and so on. But for an ex-spy, it's taking the coin of a foreign country, which is just a no-no.
RAZ: Agee, of course, famously exposed the names of CIA agents, of informants. And in 1987, Bob Baer, my colleague, Robert Siegel, interviewed Agee. And I want to play you what he said, you know, in response to charges that he was a traitor.
(Soundbite of archived broadcast)
Mr. PHILLIP AGEE (Former CIA Agent; Author, "Inside the Company"): It happens that I feel the CIA and these presidents who have used the CIA for secret interventions in other countries are not following in the best traditions of the United States.
RAZ: He felt that the CIA was treasonous, not him. Let's be clear, Robert Baer. You believe he was a traitor, no question.
Mr. BAER: Disagreeing with American policy does not necessitate betraying your country, giving away secrets, identifying covert operatives and the rest of it. That's - he's gone beyond the pale, that's the problem.
RAZ: This past week, NYU released Agee's personal papers that he deposited with them. Some of this includes correspondence with, you know, sort of left-wing figures in South America. Do you think that they'll change anything about his legacy or about the way you think about him?
Mr. BAER: For me, it's not going to change because it's like reading an op-ed piece. You may agree with opinions or disagree with them, but at the bottom, you want to know who's paying the writer's bills. That's very important for me. The fact that the Cuban intelligence and the KGB paid Agee's bills all these years, I would like that noted in his papers, and I don't think it's there. I haven't read them. And if there is some deathbed confession in all this, that'd be important for me.
RAZ: So you won't be reading them.
Mr. BAER: I won't read them, no. I'm not going to read them. The man is a fraud and a liar and a paid traitor. I just - I can't bring myself to.
RAZ: That's Robert Baer, former CIA case officer and author. He has a column in Time magazine. And his most recent book is "The Devil We Know: Dealing with the New Iranian Superpower."
Robert Baer, thank you so much.
Mr. BAER: Thanks.
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