Interview: Roberta Grossman, Director Of 'Hava Nagila (The Movie)' Director Roberta Grossman talks about her new film, which traces the evolution of the song that everybody knows — but nobody knows much about — from Jewish folk melody to unmistakable party favorite.
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Film Hoists 'Hava Nagila' Up Onto A Chair, In Celebration Of Song And Dance

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Film Hoists 'Hava Nagila' Up Onto A Chair, In Celebration Of Song And Dance

Film Hoists 'Hava Nagila' Up Onto A Chair, In Celebration Of Song And Dance

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I don't think I heard it till I was 22 years old. I come from the great state of Idaho, which is a great state, but they're, to be perfectly frank...

ROBERTA GROSSMAN: Not a "Hava Nagila" hotspot.

MARTIN: ...not a big "Hava Nagila" hotspot.

GROSSMAN: Not a love of Hava happenings.



MARTIN: Do you remember the first time you heard "Hava Nagila?"

GROSSMAN: I assume it was in utero.


MARTIN: "Hava Nagila (The Movie)," is directed by Roberta Grossman. She joins us from our studio at NPR West. Roberta, thanks for being with us.

GROSSMAN: Thanks for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

MARTIN: So, at what point did a light switch go off and you thought, oh, this is more than a song. This is binding people together in a special way?

GROSSMAN: I think that I knew that all through my life just by attending these great moments of celebration. But it wasn't until I was finishing my last film. My daughter, who was 10 at the time, said, mommy, please make a happy film next time. I took a breath and I said, honey, you know, documentary filmmakers are really not happy people. And she's currently in therapy. And so I thought it was a brilliant idea. And coincidentally, I just couple of weeks earlier just had really, no kidding, had sort of like a dialogue bubble come up over my head. And I thought what is "Hava Nagila?" And the questions that are at the beginning of the film were my questions. You know, is it 100 years old or 1,000 years old? Did somebody sit down to write it? Did it come down from Sinai. And I didn't even know what the words meant. And so began our Hava quest.

MARTIN: So, on this quest, you go back to the beginning. Can you take us there? Where was the birthplace of this song?

GROSSMAN: Well, we know that "Hava Nagila" began as a Hassidic nigun, which is a wordless prayer, wordless melody, that was used by the Hassidic movement in Eastern Europe in Sadagora, Ukraine. And the reason that we know that is that from Sadagora Hassidim left that area in 1905. Probably they were tired of pogroms and poverty and they went to Palestine. And there their song was picked up by the father of Jewish musicology, Abraham Zvi Idelsohn. And he recorded it. He put words to the song.

MARTIN: There's also a political significance to "Hava Nagila" at a very significant point in Jewish history.

GROSSMAN: You know, you think about the idea of folk music as being something that the roots go so far back you can't trace them. And in a way "Hava Nagila" does have that because it comes from Eastern Europe in that very long tradition. But "Hava Nagila" was part of and really a tent-pole of the conscious creation of a Hebrew culture in Palestine before statehood. So, there were people who were, of course, revitalizing Hebrew as a modern spoken language, and then there were people who were using that modern spoken language to create poetry. Idelsohn, he had in his mind that if you could create a repertoire of song, of folk song drawing on the roots of Jewish music from all over the world - in this case from Eastern Europe - and added Hebrew lyrics to it, then you could create a repertoire, a folk repertoire for the new nation, and that would help build the nation. So, it did have a political aspect to it.

MARTIN: So, you trace the migration of the "Hava Nagila" all the way to the United States, where it kind of takes on another life, it evolves. And all of the sudden, everyone's doing a version of the "Hava Nagila." Lena Horne is doing "Hava Nagila," Connie Francis - all kinds of stars. But you also argue that it's Harry Belafonte who becomes what you call the ambassador of the "Hava Nagila." And in the movie, he talks about performing the song in Germany. Let's take a listen to this clip.



MARTIN: Is it funny to you that Glenn Campbell has done the "Hava Nagila?"

GROSSMAN: Everything's funny with "Hava Nagila."



MARTIN: There's another really interesting performance of this song in the movie. This one's by Bob Dylan.



JOSH KUN: Bob Dylan butchers it. Just butchers it. I mean, it's a performance of "Hava Nagila" that is meant to not perform "Hava Nagila," which ultimately is a performance of "Hava Nagila," which is why I kind of like it.


KUN: That, to me, is the Jewish song. Nothing is more Jewish than that performance, precisely because it is both an embrace and a refusal. It's the smartest song about Jewish identity I've ever heard.

GROSSMAN: That's Josh Kun, who's a musicologist and a professor at USC. And I have to say that that clip that you played raises the question: who is more brilliant, Josh Kun or Bob Dylan?


MARTIN: There's a good amount of bar mitzvah, home movie footage in this film. Where does that come from? Is any of that from your own personal collection?

GROSSMAN: It's from my psyche but not from my collection. We found that film at the National Center for Jewish Film which was out of Brandeis. And that was Sydney Borstein's bar mitzvah. Sydney, if you're out there, please call in. The number is - I would love to speak with Sydney. And I love that family so much, and this is why it's the perfect archival footage. The family is completely filled with joy and happiness. They obviously love each other. They are completely unaware of the camera, so it's wonderful. It's a priceless piece of archival stock footage.

MARTIN: You said you have a daughter.

GROSSMAN: I do. I have two daughters.

MARTIN: And are they beyond the age of 13? Did they have their bat mitzvah?

GROSSMAN: My daughter recently had her bat mitzvah.

MARTIN: And did you dance the "Hava Nagila" at her bat mitzvah?

GROSSMAN: I was going to anticipate that. Yes, yes, yes and yes. And it was quite wonderful. Rabbi Lawrence Kushner, one who's in the film, told me that if he could speak to a boy or a girl who just had their bar or bat mitzvah, had been lifted up in the chair to "Hava Nagila," he'd say, you know, I want you to take that "Hava Nagila" moment, and put it in your pocket, and whenever you need it throughout the course of your life, I want you to take it out, and remember that moment where your parents and your grandparents and your family and friends were all around you, loving you, looking up at you and saying, yes, you can do it. And take that "Hava Nagila" moment with you for the rest of your life.

MARTIN: Roberta Grossman is the director of the new film "Hava Nagila." She joined us from our studio at NPR West. Roberta, thanks so much for talking with us.

GROSSMAN: Thanks very much.


MARTIN: This is WEEKEND EDITION from NPR News. I'm Rachel Martin.

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