STEVE INSKEEP, Host:
NPR White House correspondent Don Gonyea joins us now. And, Don, what did the president say?
DON GONYEA: He said - this is a quote - "The United States strongly condemns this cowardly act by murderous extremists who are trying to undermine Pakistan's democracy." He goes on to say, Steve, those who committed this crime must be brought to justice. So that's a portion of a brief statement from the president just this morning, just a bit ago.
INSKEEP: Now, we're going to talk in this part of the program about what this means for the United States and the United States' attitude toward Pakistan and toward Benazir Bhutto. And, Don, I want to begin with you on that subject because here's an administration that favored democracy but also supported a military ruler in Pakistan. What was their attitude toward Bhutto, the opposition leader, one of them?
GONYEA: So it was that very strong relationship and the difficult, difficult politics within Afghanista, or within - I'm sorry, within Pakistan that meant that the president had to, in order to keep Benazir Bhutto at arms length and couldn't really have a relationship with her, given her relationship with the Pakistani government.
INSKEEP: Okay. Don Gonyea, NPR White House correspondent. Stay with us.
GONYEA: Okay.
INSKEEP: Welcome to the program, Ambassador.
TERESITA SCHAFFER: Thank you very much.
INSKEEP: Can you describe how it was that the United States was attempting to - and I don't mean this in a pejorative sense, but attempting to use Benazir Bhutto as she had discussions with Pervez Musharraf and tried to figure out some way to get back into power?
SCHAFFER: They - Musharraf's people have been talking to Benazir's people by that time for at least two or three years. So I suspect they probably brought the United States into the picture, hoping that this would make it a more attractive offer from her point of view.
INSKEEP: Well, now what does this do to the United States, which was trying to find someway to make Musharraf more palatable and now they've been lost the instrument for that?
SCHAFFER: The emergency that was in effect for about six weeks starting in early November was one example of this. But clearly, Musharraf who was a reasonably popular leader as those things go until last March has become quite unpopular. And so there are lots of question about what would have happened if a free and fair election had taken place. A lot of people felt that the election was shaping to be anything but free and fair.
INSKEEP: Already, when we've had conversations with people in South Asia, we've heard questions about whether the elections will even go forward. We know that Bhutto is dead. We know we have reports of violence, hard to say how great but certainly widespread, tires being burned, building being attacked, police being attacked in various parts of Pakistan, which leads to this question, ambassador, which I suppose policymakers must ask. As you look at this situation, over the next few days, what's the worst-case scenario that Americans have to be prepared for?
SCHAFFER: In general, I think that the political leaders that are around on the - in the PPP and the Muslim League, actually there are fairly decent people. On the PPP side, there isn't any heir apparent however. And so the big question is going to be who winds up on top in a situation where she's not around and there's no relative of hers who's in a position to inherit what had been largely a family possession.
INSKEEP: And, Don, even before the assassination, did you get a sense in your conversations with and listening to administration officials that they felt that they knew what they wanted to do as the situation in Pakistan became more and more complicated?
GONYEA: But you always got the sense that they were aware that this was very volatile, very difficult, even before this turn that it has taken now.
INSKEEP: And, Ambassador Schaffer, is there any chance, very briefly, any chance that the people of Pakistan could take this situation further out of control with mass demonstrations or violence?
SCHAFFER: Yes, there is. And that's in a sense already started. Musharraf's government had been responding to that by locking people up, but I think that things are already well under way. That's not necessarily a catastrophe. In the sense that this could be the trigger for some kind of political change that would lead to a real election.
INSKEEP: Okay.
SCHAFFER: It's probable that the army is the agent of change.
INSKEEP: Ambassador Teresita Schaffer, thank you very much for your insights this morning.
SCHAFFER: Okay.
INSKEEP: And NPR White House correspondent Don Gonyea, thank you.
GONYEA: You're welcome.
INSKEEP: You're listening to MORNING EDITION from NPR News.
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