ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
Now: Democratic convention delegates.
According to the Associated Press, Barack Obama now has won 1,178 pledged delegates in primaries and caucuses. Hillary Clinton has won 1,024 and another 1,025 remain to be awarded.
If the Democratic nomination is not settled soon, there's at least the possibility of it not being settled until the convention, during the last week of August. And if it comes to that, people like our next guest, Ralph Dawson, are going to be very important.
He's a Democratic National Committee member from New York. That makes Mr. Dawson an unpledged convention delegate, as we say sometimes a superdelegate. And more to the point, he sits on both the rules committee and the credentials committee of the convention.
Mr. Dawson, welcome. We think you're in possession of much esoteric knowledge.
Mr. RALPH DAWSON (Member, Democratic National Committee): Happy to be here.
SIEGEL: First, now, here's something that Roger Simon wrote in Politico.com this week. He wrote, a pledged delegate is pledged to a particular candidate and cannot switch, right? Wrong, he wrote. Pledged delegates are not really pledged at all, not even on the first ballot. Is that true?
Mr. DAWSON: That is true. The applicable rule refers to good conscience. It allows a pledged delegate, in good conscience, to vote differently than the way he was selected as a delegate.
The candidate selects men and women whom they are pretty sure they can count on. So that's the primary protection.
SIEGEL: The doctrine would be, you picked him so you should know, your campaign should now.
Mr. DAWSON: That's right.
SIEGEL: Next question: Florida and Michigan. Now, the Democratic National Committee stripped Florida and Michigan of their delegate votes for holding primaries earlier than the national committee allowed. I believe you actually moved the resolution to strip Florida. Will those states have any delegates in Denver, at the convention?
Mr. DAWSON: Not unless they either run a substitute process before the primary and caucus season ends or unless the credentials committee decides to grant a request made by one or both of those state to seat delegates. We expect both states will bring a slate of delegates to the convention and request that they'd be seated.
SIEGEL: Are there discussions that, you know, that are actually getting anywhere about having substitute caucuses or primaries in either Michigan or Florida?
Mr. DAWSON: There have been discussions with persons in the Democratic Party in both those states, and there has been no resolution with respect to the issue.
SIEGEL: I wanted to ask you about the words you invoked in the answer to pledge delegates breaking their pledges, conscience. If it could be conscionable for somebody to become unpledged to the convention or pledged somebody else, is it conscionable to go poaching for pledged delegates?
Mr. DAWSON: I seem to recall that in the last couple of days in the chatter between the campaigns. The campaigns have more or less indicated that they're unlikely to do that, but there is nothing that prevents them from doing that.
SIEGEL: But as far as superdelegates are concerned, there's nothing at all unconscionable or conjure any rules for everybody to try to call you up, for example.
Mr. DAWSON: That's correct.
SIEGEL: Gotten a lot of phone calls lately?
Mr. DAWSON: I have.
SIEGEL: You have. I see.
Mr. DAWSON: Phone calls and e-mails.
SIEGEL: Any, I mean, would a box of chocolates be considered unethical at this point?
Mr. DAWSON: I don't think so, but I don't eat chocolates.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. DAWSON: And I am not looking for a gift.
SIEGEL: Or a position in a future administration, though.
Mr. DAWSON: That's correct.
SIEGEL: I assume you can't buy somebody's vote at the convention. You can't pay them off to…
Mr. DAWSON: Well, delegates are unpaid, but I am not aware of any specific rule that prevents someone from giving consideration for support. I think it would be a very unwise thing to do. No one has offered me anything, and I'm not interested in such an offer. But I'm not aware of any rule that specifically prohibits it.
SIEGEL: It sounds like the one thing that's against the rules is smoking while - the smoke-filled room. You can't smoke in it. That's the one thing you can't do, but everything else is pretty much permissible if you want to do it.
Mr. DAWSON: If Denver is anything like New York, then I think that's true.
SIEGEL: Well, Mr. Dawson, thank you very much for talking with us today.
Mr. DAWSON: My pleasure.
SIEGEL: That's Ralph Dawson, Democratic National Committee member from New York and a superdelegate and a member of the Democratic National Committee's credentials and rules committees.
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