SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
The debate over guns after a shooting may seem to sound like the same old arguments. The Rev. Rob Schenck might be a different voice. He's an evangelical leader, an anti-abortion activist who is president of Faith in Action, a Christian outreach organization. And he's turned his attention to guns. He joins us in our studios. Rev. Schenck, thanks very much for being with us.
ROB SCHENCK: My pleasure.
SIMON: I don't want to characterize your views. I wouldn't call them on gun policy but something else.
SCHENCK: Yeah, for me, the whole question of gun use, ownership, for defensive purposes - and I make a distinction with that. I think when you're talking about hunting and sportsmanship, you have a different discussion. But, for me, when you talk about aiming a weapon at another human being, no matter what the circumstances are, that's a question of paramount moral and ethical dimensions. So it's something we should take very seriously, and I don't know that a lot of us are.
SIMON: So you're not necessarily calling for gun control at the legal level, but in a funny way, personal gun control.
SCHENCK: Well, yeah. I don't think of it so much as funny because, ultimately, we'll all make the decision what we will do, whether we'll own a lethal weapon and use it or not. You know, we've had a long discussion in this country - decades long now - on gun control - that is, government gun control. For me, this is a question of self-control, regardless of what the law may allow me to do, I appeal to a higher law.
And I've said publicly that in our respecting of the Second Amendment, we have to be very careful we don't break the second commandment, which is the commandment against idolatry. And we can set up our own idolatry when we declare ourselves the arbiters of right and wrong and especially of the value of a human life.
SIMON: Do you see your views on guns as being consistent with your pro-life views as well?
SCHENCK: Most certainly, I've been a pro-life advocate for 30 years. I see life as having value from the moment of conception. But there's a whole lot of life after conception. It's a pro-life question, and it's a deeply moral question, and it's even, for me, a theological question.
SIMON: Forgive me if this a personal question, but you kind of opened the door. Do you own a gun?
SCHENCK: I do not.
SIMON: On principle, or...
SCHENCK: On principle. I've made the decision not to own a weapon. There's a lot of reasons for that. One is I think it does create an ethical crisis for a Christian. Secondly, I don't necessarily trust myself. And maybe, more or less, would be better off to question what we will do in the heat of anger, fear or, God forbid, depression. My own family has a history of gun suicide due to depression. I know depression runs in families. I don't want to take that risk.
SIMON: And what might you say, and probably not a hypothetical, I bet you've had this question from people who say, look, I think - I feel the need to own a gun for the self-defense of me and my family. And I think, more or less, I ought to be able to walk in some place and walk out with a gun.
SCHENCK: Sure. And I understand that impulse, and I respect it. I don't impugn people's motives on that. I think an awful lot of those people are sincere and that that's a noble inclination that we have. Now whether the handgun, a lethal weapon, is the best way to manage that security for yourself and your family is another question because sometimes a handgun can be a shortcut in the equation.
SIMON: Do you think it's possible that religious leaders and ethical leaders might be able to reach some kind of breakthrough with each other - I don't even want to broach the word compromise - that political leaders have missed?
SCHENCK: Yes, I do. First of all, I don't want to sound too cynical, but I think politicians are, on the whole, imminently disqualified from really giving us good guidance on this question because, of course, they're in the business of politics. That means winning elections. They're going to do what's in their best electoral interests on the question.
I hope that religious leaders are, for the most part, in a pursuit of the truth. So I've decided I'm going to shift to where my people are most comfortable. And that's the law of the heart and of the mind and of the conscience. And after that, I think we can probably get to some consensus on policy and legislation.
SIMON: The Rev. Rob Schenck, president of Faith in Action. Thanks so much for being with us.
SCHENCK: Thank you.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.