AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:
In many parts of Flint, Mich., it's still not safe to drink the tap water or even cook with it. People in Flint have lots of questions for the government officials who let corroded lead pipes pollute the water. Perhaps the biggest is this.
HATTIE COLLINS: When are you going to fix it? And I mean fix it right.
CORNISH: That's Hattie Collins. Our co-host, Ari Shapiro, met her while she was distributing bottled water at Triumph Church in Flint. And so Ari set out to answer her question - when will there be clean water?
ARI SHAPIRO, BYLINE: There is now an 18-wheeler parked in front of the church, massive truck. This is from Columbus, Ohio?
COLLINS: And we're getting another one today at 11:45 from Columbus, Ohio. Then at 4:30, we're getting five more semi-trailers.
SHAPIRO: Those trucks are all full of donated water bottles. Hattie Collins is overseeing a team of church volunteers that hands out literally thousands a day.
COLLINS: Right. All this water will be gone today.
SHAPIRO: Can you do that day after day for months or years?
COLLINS: As long as they send the water, yes. We'll be here to pass it out.
SHAPIRO: To figure out how long Hattie Collins will have to keep passing out this water, you have to start by measuring the scale of the problem. Flint is a city of close to 100,000 people. How many of those people have lead pipes leading to their homes? That's the question Marty Kaufman sent out to answer.
MARTY KAUFMAN: We jumped on this right away.
SHAPIRO: He's a professor of Earth and Resource Science at the University of Michigan in Flint. For a couple of weeks now, he's been officially contracted to work with the city. But back in October, he went to the city and said show me your records. Where are the lead pipes?
KAUFMAN: We were taken aback when they showed us a big file drawer that had 45,000 cards.
SHAPIRO: Forty-five thousand handwritten index cards saying which pipes were lead, which were copper, and so on.
KAUFMAN: One of the big problems is that they were written in pencil, so they smeared quite a bit, too.
SHAPIRO: Kaufman realized a bunch of handwritten notes in smeared pencil would never work, so he asked city officials - is there any other place with this information? And it turned out there was - parcel maps showing city blocks divided into little squares of property.
KAUFMAN: On these particular maps that the city water department had, there was a code affixed to many of the parcels that indicated what type of service line was running into the house.
SHAPIRO: And were these just big sheets of paper? What were they?
KAUFMAN: Yes. I can show you one. We have one in the other room.
SHAPIRO: Will you show us? Let's do it.
We walked down the hall into the room where a black and white map is laid out on a table.
KAUFMAN: This is what we're talking about.
SHAPIRO: So this is, like, one yard by maybe a yard-and-a-half, and this is a neighborhood in Flint.
KAUFMAN: It is. And you can see where they've labeled what type of service connection they have into the house. Here's one that says L and C. That's a lead and copper connection right there.
SHAPIRO: The city scanned 240 of these maps into a computer and Kaufman's team methodically knitted them together, inputting the data about what the pipes are made up of at each place. When we visited on Friday, they were just completing the project.
So what you have on the screen now is a map of Flint, the entire city. And it is basically, stitched together, all of those specific, individual maps that you found in the city's archives.
KAUFMAN: That's correct.
SHAPIRO: But this is just one step. The information in these maps is from the 1980s. Nobody knows how accurate they are, and they have big blank areas.
KAUFMAN: Ultimately, anytime you make a map you have to field-check your information.
SHAPIRO: In other words, compare the map to the real world. And that brings us to Professor Laura Sullivan of Kettering University. We asked her when Flint will have clean water. And she says over time, the inside of the corroded lead pipes will rebuild a protective film. That'll make the water safer, but it's not a long-term solution, and nobody actually knows how long the film will take to rebuild.
LAURA SULLIVAN: We've never encountered a situation where the pipes in a city are corroded to the extent that these are.
SHAPIRO: Dr. Sullivan has work has worked on clean water projects all over the world, from South America to sub-Saharan Africa. Suddenly, her expertise is needed here in her hometown of Flint. The state appointed her to a committee that is trying to fix the water. And she says it's tricky because trying to fix the pipes could knock off that protective film that's starting to rebuild.
SULLIVAN: The fact is we have to replace all of those pipes. The practical reality is we can't do that all in two weeks. We can't do that all in even a month. And while I don't want to say we're going to stall or delay, but we surely shouldn't rush.
SHAPIRO: And beginning to end, do you have any idea whether it's a one-year, a five-year, a 15-year process?
SULLIVAN: I don't. I mean, I wish I could say. What I can tell you is I firmly believe that the light is shining so brightly on the city of Flint right now that if there were any entity that had any negative or malicious reason to slow things down, there's no way they could do that. And if there's any entity that has the ability to make things right, they're being empowered to do that.
SHAPIRO: But at the same time, I think the takeaway for somebody saying - when is this going to be fixed, when will I be the stop using filters and bottles? - your explanation makes 100 percent sense, and yet the answer seems to be a shrug. Like, who knows?
SULLIVAN: And I get that. And so one of roles that I feel like I have is as I'm figuring this stuff out, as I'm learning about this stuff is that everybody else is learning about that stuff, that nobody's in the dark going forward. And that, you know, next week, we'll know so much more than we know right now. And not only that, but these - there are now opportunities for the unemployed and the underemployed in Flint to be a part of this, to have jobs in assisting with this. So what we plan on doing is taking care of this as quickly as possible, and involving Flint and taking care of Flint. Not saying oh, it's your problem, you have to take care of it, but saying everything you need to take care of it, we'll provide. But this is your city and you have control of the city, and we're done having emergency managers telling you what to do. We're going to help you heal your city.
SHAPIRO: You have worked all over the world in developing countries on water issues. How weird does it feel (laughter) to be having this conversation about your own city, the place you call home?
SULLIVAN: You know, when I go into a community that I'm not a part of, my goal is to try and win of the trust of people I've never met, right? In this situation, I was meeting people I never met before from walks of life I would never have crossed, but they were really very much like me. And so this is more like fighting for my family than it is trying to help people that deserve something better, right? This is more like feeling horribly hurt because the people who I've been standing with are horribly hurt.
SHAPIRO: Well, Dr. Laura Sullivan, thank you so much for talking with us.
SULLIVAN: It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
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SHAPIRO: For the people of Flint, we don't know when you'll have clean water is not a satisfying answer, but at least now it's an honest one.
CORNISH: That's our co-host, Ari Shapiro, reporting from Flint, Mich.
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