DAVID GREENE, HOST:
Here's an idea that seemed radical when it came out in 1971. Eating a diet based mostly on plants rather than meat can be better for the planet and also for people's health. This idea came from a best-selling book called "Diet For A Small Planet." It was written by Frances Moore Lappe. We're about to meet her and her daughter Anna Lappe, who's been continuing her mother's advocacy. We've been meeting people like them this month. We call them Boundbreakers, people who break through barriers to change the world around them.
NPR's Allison Aubrey spoke with mom and daughter about the social and environmental impacts of the foods we choose.
ALLISON AUBREY, BYLINE: If you turned on the evening news back in the 1970s and '80s, it was hard to escape images of famine. This old news clip evokes suffering in Ethiopia.
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Across a wide sweep of Wollo and Tigray, people still stream in their thousands into the relief camps - death reduced to routine.
AUBREY: Now, at that time, some experts were predicting a doomsday scenario. As the population grew, food shortages would worsen, they argued. The planet just couldn't produce enough food. But the author of "Diet For A Small Planet," Frances Moore Lappe, argued it did not need to be this way. And not surprisingly, she got several opportunities to appear here on NPR to deliver a different message. Here's Lappe from an interview on All Things Considered back in 1982.
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FRANCES MOORE LAPPE: When I first started looking at these issues, I was very much influenced by the ecology movement, by "Limits To Growth" metaphors that were telling us that we'd actually reached the Earth's limits to feed people.
AUBREY: But Lappe pointed out that there were more than enough calories being produced around the world. It's just a lot of them were not going directly to feed people. Much of the corn farmers grew, for instance, was used to feed cattle to meet the demand for meat. And back then, Lappe pointed to this as one part of a very complicated problem.
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F. LAPPE: So my message was, look - in fact, we had this tremendous abundance. It is the economic, the political structures that determine whether or not that production is actually meeting the needs of human beings.
AUBREY: Now remember, back then, meat was at the center of Americans' plates. A big steak was a symbol of security and prosperity. So to promote a diet of vegetables and beans and rice, Lappe told me in a recent interview, it was radical.
F. LAPPE: Shocking. It was heresy, especially coming from a girl who grew up in Cowtown, Fort Worth, Texas.
AUBREY: Leafing through "Diet For A Small Planet," there are lots of recipes. I spot one for spinach lasagna. Here's one for soy burgers, veggie enchiladas. None of these would seem particularly inventive today given that...
F. LAPPE: (Laughter).
AUBREY: ...We're all familiar with them. But I'm imagining back in the 1970s, was this a new idea for people?
F. LAPPE: Yeah. I was shocked that some people told me that their parents were sure that they would die of malnutrition if they followed the advice I was giving in the book.
AUBREY: Today, lots of us have heard the arguments about the environmental costs of meat production. Recent studies have shown it can take six pounds of grain and up to 60 gallons of water to produce the meat for one hamburger. But 40 years ago, people hadn't connected these dots, so Lappe used the shock and dismay over her veggie recipes to her advantage. With the buzz her book created, she was invited onto talk shows, mostly to talk about cooking.
Was this kind of a stealth way to communicate...
F. LAPPE: (Laughter).
AUBREY: ...A much bigger agenda here?
F. LAPPE: It was. I remember when I finally made it on "The Today Show" and Bryant Gumbel asked me, Ms. Lappe, what did you have for breakfast? And I went from that question to the political and economic roots of world hunger.
AUBREY: Lappe has never given up on this work, trying to make people more aware of the consequences of their food choices. She's written more books and traveled widely, researching and exploring where our food comes from and the environmental and political implications of the way it's produced, not just in the developing world but here in the U.S., too. Her daughter Anna, who's now in her 40s, has been along for much of the ride.
F. LAPPE: Anna, were you 11 when we went to Ohio?
ANNA LAPPE: Yes. I'll never forget going into these farm workers' homes. They opened up their homes to us. My mother was interviewing them for this research project she was doing. And as a middle schooler, you know, to hear people living in this country producing food for our tables - to hear these farm workers talk about the exploitation they were experiencing, the suffering they were experiencing - talk about an eye-opening experience for me.
AUBREY: Anna's now an advocate and author in her own right. She's pushing for change on a range of issues in the food system, from worker rights, protecting natural resources, to the way snacks and sugary drinks are marketed, an issue that she says has become big for her as the mom of two girls.
A. LAPPE: Recently, I was showing my daughters some of the amazing strong women gymnasts from the Olympics. But in order to watch, we had to sit through a Coca-Cola ad. My 7-year-old said, but Mom, why is there an ad for soda when, you know, when this is supposed to be, you know, athletic and these gymnasts are supposed to be so healthy?
AUBREY: Anna says there's still a lot of work to do to promote food choices that are healthy for people and the planet. But she's also encouraged. She says the conversation that her mom helped to start 45 years ago has gained a lot of traction.
A. LAPPE: I think there has been enormous change. I mean, think about when my mom was writing "Diet For A Small Planet," for instance, there were just several hundred farmers' markets left in this country. Today, there are now more than 4,000 farmers' markets across the country. And I think about how much more access there is to healthy food in places like schools where you now have a farm-to-school movement across the country.
AUBREY: She says one particularly sweet moment for her came last year on "Mad Money," a popular CNBC show. The host, Jim Cramer, did a whole segment on how sustainably farmed organic fruits and vegetables are becoming more mainstream.
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JIM CRAMER: Most people would probably tell you that organic food is really just for rich people - that it's not an economical way to approach agriculture, that it can't feed the world. Well, guess what. None of that's true.
F. LAPPE: I love it.
A. LAPPE: So I feel like when Jim Cramer is starting to sound like Frances Moore Lappe, I think we can say some progress has been made.
AUBREY: Frances says she, too, is optimistic. She acknowledges that there's still hunger and malnutrition around the globe. But earlier this week, she tweeted out a quote. It read, (reading) if you expect to see the final results of your work, you simply haven't asked a big enough question.
Allison Aubrey, NPR News.
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