RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:
We're going to spend a few minutes talking about the geopolitics of milk. You might remember President Trump recently accused Canada of unfairly blocking imports of milk from the U.S. Canada tightly controls dairy prices. And American farmers say those rules are forcing them out of business. Here's NPR's Dan Charles.
DAN CHARLES, BYLINE: It seems like a fundamental law of economics - if you make your living selling something and that thing is in short supply, you can charge more and get rich. If there's too much of it on the market already though, you have to cut your prices. Dairy farmer Bill Bruins in Wisconsin says that's certainly true for milk.
BILL BRUINS: You have high prices followed by low prices followed by high prices.
CHARLES: Right now, prices are low because the world's cows are producing too much milk. They're so low, in fact, some dairy farmers are giving up, selling their cows. Bruins is surviving, though.
BRUINS: We are making a little bit this year. Last year, we basically treaded water. We lost a little bit.
CHARLES: It's a totally different situation though for this man on the other side of a border that American milk rarely crosses.
MURRAY SHERK: My name is Murray Sherk. I'm a dairy farmer from Plattsville, Ontario, which is about an hour west of Toronto.
CHARLES: Sherk is getting more money for his milk right now than Bruins is - about 25 percent more. And his income really doesn't change much from year to year.
SHERK: The prices are fairly stable and predictable.
CHARLES: Because in Canada, the price of the milk that a farmer sells is not based on supply and demand. A bunch of people from industry and the government get together, and they just decide what's a fair price. It has to be high enough to cover a good farmer's costs plus a little profit.
SHERK: To provide what you call fair returns for efficient producers.
CHARLES: So any competent dairy farmer in Canada should be able to make money every year. But farmers also can't expand production to take advantage of those guaranteed prices.
SHERK: Each producer has a share of the market. We call it a quota.
CHARLES: Farmers can buy and sell those shares. If one farm's cows suddenly give a lot more milk, that farmer has to either buy quota from another farmer or sell some cows. This is called supply management. And part of it also involves keeping out imports of cheap milk from the United States.
Basically, when it comes to milk and some other farm products like poultry, Canada has set aside the normal laws of the market. Here's Maurice Doyon, an economist at Laval University in Quebec.
MAURICE DOYON: It's a choice. It's almost a society choice, right?
CHARLES: Doyon says Canada's system lets smaller farms survive. The dairy farms with 10,000 cows that are more and more common in the United States don't exist in Canada. Also, there's more stability in farming communities. But there's a cost, too.
Canadian dairy farmers don't have to be as efficient as farmers in the rest of the world. And as a result, every Canadian has to pay more for milk and cheese and yogurt. It's like a tax on every milk-drinking family. This is why most economists think the system's a bad idea. Doyon supports it, though.
DOYON: There is obviously a transfer from the consumer to the farmer, but I think it's worth it.
CHARLES: So far, Canadian consumers don't seem to mind this. But they could decide someday they want cheaper milk more than preserving small farms. More immediate pressure to change though is coming from outside Canada.
There may soon be North American trade talks again. And U.S. negotiators are likely to say we'll only let you Canadians ship lumber to the U.S. if American dairy farmers get to send their milk to Canada. Dan Charles, NPR News.
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