NEAL COHEN, host:
This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.
The countdown is underway for NASA's first Independence Day launch of the space shuttle. In about eight minutes-time, we expect the shuttle Discovery to blast off from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
Today's launch is NASA's third try to get this shuttle off the ground. Bad weather scrubbed attempts on Saturday and Sunday. Yesterday, inspectors found a crack in the shuttle's foam insulation, and a three-inch chunk of foam that had fallen off.
Last night, NASA officials decided that the cracked foam did not pose a danger. So if the weather holds at the launch site, Discovery will lift off for its mission to the International Space Station.
Joining me here in Studio 3A is NPR's science correspondent, Richard Harris. We're also joined by David Kestenbaum, NPR science correspondent, overlooking the launch site in Florida. Also in Florida, Carl Walz, former astronaut and associate director of the Life Support and Habitation Program for the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate at NASA.
David, how are things looking down there at the launch site?
Mr. DAVID KESTENBAUM (NPR Science Correspondent): This is the best we've seen it. The sky looks totally clear. There's a little wind, but they've already decided that's not a problem. The flags are flying strong. There's an American flag, and below that there's a flag that says Discovery on it for the Discovery space shuttle.
CONAN: And the problems with the foam - what went into the decision? Obviously, foam is blamed for the disaster in the past. Why overlook a problem this time around?
Mr. KESTENBAUM: There are a few things they wanted to consider. One was they wanted to make sure there wasn't going to be any more foam coming off, and they got some very close-up photographs of the area where the foam had come loose. And they didn't see any danger of that.
They wanted to make sure there was still enough foam to protect the shuttle - protect the shuttle's tank. The tank is actually quite thin - fraction of an inch thick - and when it goes up it can get quite hot so they need enough foam there.
They weren't worried about that. And they said they feel like they understood why it came off. There was some ice that had formed after a rainy day, which had pinched a joint and some of the foam had popped off. So they felt like this was a phenomenon that they understood, and there was enough foam left.
The piece they found was actually quite small. They had it in a Ziploc bag. It was described a crust of bread. About that big.
CONAN: So considerably smaller than the chunk that caused the problems last time?
Mr. KESTENBAUM: That was described as being the size of a briefcase.
CONAN: So very different. There were, though, some other problems with the launch. Again, nothing that's going to scrub the flight though?
Mr. KESTENBAUM: There were problems with a - and still are - problems with a thermostat on one of the thrusters. It's a small thruster, nothing you need for launch. It's one of the things that's used for subtle maneuvers in space, for docking with the international space station. And it's one of six are broken, that will not be able to work, but they can get by with the other five.
They did have to decide to go through a procedure and get a waiver for that. But they did that and so they're good for launch today.
CONAN: That's NPR's David Kestenbaum with us from Cape Canaveral and the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.
And Richard Harris is with me here in the studio in Washington. Richard, there's a very small window in which this will either take off or its going to be postponed again.
Mr. RICHARD HARRIS (NPR Science Correspondent): That's exactly right, Neal. Because this space shuttle has to get to the international space station, which is in orbit and you have to launch - they basically have five minutes from the time zero today to get up into that orbit, because they're going to spend a couple of days chasing it around the planet and trying to catch up with it. And if it launches too much later than that, they'll never catch up so they won't even try.
CONAN: So it's all planetary and celestial mechanics as they're trying to use the least amount of fuel to catch up to the space station.
Mr. HARRIS: Right. They have to - the space station really would be out of reach if they tried to launch it 4:00 this afternoon or something like that.
CONAN: And tell us a little bit about the mission of this particular flight.
Mr. HARRIS: Well the main point of this mission really is to test some of the repairs that they've made over the last several years since the Columbia tragedy in 2003. They're also bringing a bunch of cargo up to the space station, and a new astronaut up there who's going to spend six months up there.
CONAN: A West German astronaut?
Mr. HARRIS: Indeed. Or German astronaut…
CONAN: German. West German is a - and we're beginning to hear some of the broadcast from NASA. We'll be taking you to that when they get down to the countdown. And the shuttle's actually expected to take off in roughly three and a half minutes time.
So the mission is to the international space station, but this a mission with a limited amount of time. The shuttle itself is set to expire in the year 2010, Richard.
Mr. HARRIS: That's right. They only have really budget and really only - the space shuttle is really, really old and they want to get it out of service as quickly as possible. So they're going to make as many launches as they can between now and the end of the 2010, at which point they're going to just stop the program.
So they're hoping there could be 16 or 17 launches. But, you know, if they have more delays the way we've seen the last couple of years, it could be substantially fewer than that.
CONAN: Let's listen in anyway, as the feed comes to us from NASA. This is Bruce Buckingham, the anchor at launch control at Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
(Soundbite of launch control)
Mr. BRUCE BUCKINGHAM (NASA Launch Control): T minus three minutes and counting. Everything is looking good for launch today, hoping to add to the country's Fourth of July Independence Day celebrations.
CONAN: And it could be quite a fireworks show. Let's go down to Florida. Astronaut Carl Walz, you're a veteran of four space flights yourself. Can you tell us how you felt at three minutes to launch?
Mr. CARL WALZ (NASA astronaut, Retired): You get really busy, especially if you're on the flight deck. There's a lot of things that are going through your mind. You're working with a checklist. You know, you connect the fuel cells to the buses, you start the auxiliary power units. And so the space shuttle now seems like it's alive and vibrating doing flight control checks.
CONAN: Do you have any time at all to thrilled(ph) to the moment that you're about to do what you dreamed of doing ever since you were a little boy?
Mr. WALZ: This is where the adrenaline starts to build.
CONAN: This is where the adrenaline starts to build.
Mr. WALZ: Yeah. Once you're inside of nine minutes, this is a - you're really focused.
CONAN: Let's go back to NASA.
(Soundbite of launch control)
Mr. BUCKINGHAM: T minus two minutes and counting.
CONAN: So we're still on track. And, David Kestenbaum, as I understand it, once we're at this point, well, they're going to go.
Mr. KESTENBAUM: There is a possibility of a hold at 30 seconds. We'll see if they decide to execute that for some thermal conditioning of a park of the rocket. But it may just run straight down. It's at one minute, 37 seconds.
Carl, you had a time where they stopped with just a few seconds left, right?
Mr. WALZ: Yeah. There, you know, is a potential occurrence as well, though, it's a fairly low probability where the main engines start and then shut down before you actually lift off. But I think this'll (unintelligible) quite sail right down, hopefully.
Mr. KESTENBAUM: Once they light to solid rocket boosters, there's no turning them off. So at that point, you have to wait a while to come back.
Mr. WALZ: That's right.
CONAN: And the countdown is underway. We heard already earlier 90 seconds and counting. Let's see if we can get an update from Canaveral.
(Soundbite of launch control)
Mr. BUCKINGHAM: T minus 60 seconds and counting.
CONAN: Alright. So in one minute, Carl. Well, we've heard so many descriptions of that - just describe it for us in your own words what it felt like the first time.
Mr. WALZ: Just a lot of vibration. Whole lot of shaking, that's what I would characterize the launch (unintelligible).
CONAN: Alright. Everybody's getting ready for that shaking. There are seven astronauts aboard the Space Shuttle Discovery. The launch is set for, well, 35 seconds from now and we're going to be bringing it to you live and…
(Soundbite of launch control)
Mr. BUCKINGHAM: Go for auto-sequence start. Discovery's onboard computers have primary control of all the vehicle's critical functions. T minus 17 seconds and counting. 15…12, 11, 10, nine, eight, seven, six - the main engines start.
CONAN: You're listening to NPR News.
Mr. BUCKINGHAM: Two, one, booster ignition, and liftoff of the space shuttle Discovery returning to the space station, paving the way for future missions beyond.
(Soundbite of shuttle flying)
CONAN: The shuttle is making that familiar roll turn as it goes onto its back after lifting off from Cape Canaveral and roaring into the night. David Kestenbaum, could you describe what you see?
Mr. KESTENBAUM: Wow. It is just shockingly bright when you see it. It's the biggest firework ever, going straight up, a huge trailing white cloud behind it. At the beginning, you really have to almost look away because it'll feel like it'll burn your retina.
Getting smaller. And there's just a column of smoke behind it going straight down to the ground.
CONAN: Carl Walz, when you're in that space, are you feeling, do you feel that roll? I mean, you're being pressed back so far into your seat, do you feel the roll at all?
Mr. WALZ: You really don't feel the roll. You can see it, though, if you look out the windows. You can see the roll. All of the sudden, you're looking at the ocean. You could see the smoke down from the launch pad. And we're getting the throttle down, now the throttle up. And you're pressed down in your seat about three Gs as you're accelerating into space.
CONAN: Um-hmm. The next critical moment would be the separation of the solid rocket boosters?
Mr. WALZ: That's correct, yeah. That's at about two minutes. That's a big milestone now.
Mr. KESTENBAUM: The shuttle at this point is already, half as heavy as it was when it started. It's gone through a tremendous amount of fuel in the beginning.
CONAN: That is NPR's David Kestenbaum at the Kennedy Space Flight Center in Florida. Also with us, astronaut Carl Walz. Richard Harris is with us here in Washington. And I'm Neal Conan.
You're listening to NPR News.
Mr. KESTENBAUM: (Unintelligible) should've just separated…
CONAN: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.
About two minutes ago, the space shuttle Discovery launched from the Kennedy Space Center on a mission to the international space station. (Unintelligible) with NPR's David Kestenbaum in Florida, along with astronaut Carl Walz. And Richard Harris, NPR's science correspondent with me here in Studio 3A in Washington, D.C.
David Kestenbaum, have we seen the separation of the solid rocket boosters?
Mr. KESTENBAUM: Yeah. Actually you can see it. It's a small bright thing coming down. It's the solid rocket booster. And that actually, interestingly, have some cameras and images on it. There were 100 cameras, over 100 cameras focused on this launch, so they really want to get a good look at it and make sure nothing hit the heat shield.
And some of the cameras are on the solid rocket boosters, and they're falling quite slowly. Those eventually land in the ocean, they fish them out, and so they won't have those images for a little bit. But some of the others they get quite quickly.
CONAN: And, Carl Walz, the rocket is also being chased by aircraft. T-38s, no?
Mr. WALZ: No, not for this. No. Most of our instrumentation is on the ground and then in space, on the vehicle itself. So, yeah, we didn't have any 38s. Usually we'll may chase them for landing.
CONAN: May chase them for landing, I see, for different kinds of purposes. But, obviously, in the past several years, any angle that people can find to put a camera on the space shuttle, they're going to do it.
Mr. WALZ: That's correct, yeah. Especially, you know, trying to understand the foam issues.
CONAN: On the foam issues because that has been such a problem in making sure. It may have been alright to get into space, as we've learned, but may present a problem going down.
Anyway, let's go back to NASA.
(Soundbite of launch control)
Mr. BUCKINGHAM: Discovery nearing the point of negative return, where the shuttle would be too far downrange, too high in altitude to return to the launch site in the event of an engine failure.
CONAN: And that was Bruce Buckingham, the anchor at launch control at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Richard Harris, here in Washington, if memory serves, if that option is gone, the next one is to abort to a landing field in Spain.
Mr. HARRIS: That's correct. If they can get across the Atlantic, they'd do that. And if they - actually if the failure's a little bit farther downstream than that, they can, they have other abort options. One of which is called abort once around, which is they go around the earth once and then they land.
Or there's such a thing as abort to orbit, which sounds like an oxymoron, cause if you're in orbit it doesn't sound like an abort. But in this case, it would mean not getting up to the altitude of the space station. So they'd be up there and they'd be safely in orbit, but they wouldn't be able to complete their mission to get to the space station at least.
CONAN: Tell us, this is the second flight since the disaster of Columbia, and the first in almost a year. Why did it take so long to get back on schedule?
Mr. HARRIS: Well, it took a long time between 2003 when the Columbia disaster came along and to really come up with some fixes for it. And they thought that they had some good fixes in places. But the launch last year, last July, turned out to reveal that the fixes weren't quite fixes. And so it was back to the drawing board yet again to fix some of these issues with falling foam. That's the real issue.
Foam is so lightweight - it was only a pound and a half of foam that fell off the space shuttle - but it was moving - in 2003 - but it's moving at such an incredible velocity that it's able to punch a hole in the space shuttle. So, yeah, they really wanted to make sure that they had that right and make sure that no more than a fraction of a pound could come out.
CONAN: Let's get another update from Bruce Buckingham at launch control at Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
(Soundbite from launch control)
Mr. ROB NABY(ph) (Houston Launch Control): Heads up position through the swiveling of its main engines, enabling the shuttle to gain more favorable communications through the tracking and data relay satellite as it heads uphill.
CONAN: And that's Rob Naby. Rob Naby is now talking to us from Houston rather than from the space flight center there in Florida.
And let's go back to David Kestenbaum. What can you see there, David?
Mr. KESTENBAUM: Now the cloud turns into a real cloud. It starts out as very thin and just looks like there's the biggest, strangest cloud you ever seen. Very low and over the launch pad drifting to one side.
We're nearing the point where they're going to have to throttle down, because the shuttle actually loses so much weight as it burns through it fuel that it would get going too fast. So they have to throttle back now that it's later.
CONAN: Going too fast?
Mr. KESTENBAUM: It's an acceleration and they try to maintain the acceleration at a maximum of three times the force of gravity, for three Gs, and that's to protect the fight control systems and the vertical stabilizer on the space shuttle.
The people can take more…
CONAN: Um-hmm.
MR. HARRIS: But they want to protect the vehicle.
CONAN: Because the vehicle's, yeah, obviously you want to protect the vehicle or the people have considerable difficulties.
MR. HARRIS: But at this point I think they start to, you start to have a nice view now, yeah, now that they've rolled over.
Mr. WALZ: Yeah. Yeah.
CONAN: What would you be seeing at this point?
Mr. WALZ: Well, you just, you'd be getting toward the edge of space, and you'd just, you know, you'd start to get some great views of the earth and, you know, it's just, you're starting to really, you know, feel like you're a space traveler at this point.
CONAN: Um-hmm. Richard Harris, we've had the separation, we've had the roll, then the separation of the solid rocket boosters. What's the next big event as the shuttle continues on its way towards orbit?
MR. HARRIS: Well, if all goes well, all three main engines will continue to burn until a point called MECO, or main engine cutoff, at which point they're basically gliding in orbit. That's about, usually eight and a half minutes into the flight. At that point, they're basically their momentum will carry them from there, at least into their initial orbit.
CONAN: Into their initial orbit. Main engine cutoff, the big tank, the big fuel tank, does that come off at that point?
MR. HARRIS: Yes, that's going to come out because it's no longer needed.
CONAN: and that, of course, will not be recovered. It will fall back to earth and burn up in the atmosphere along the way. I guess some pieces make it back, and presumably, those pieces of foam which are so sturdy.
Let's go back to Rob Navias, and Houston.
Mr. ROB NAVIAS (NASA Mission Commentator): Eight minutes, 15 seconds into the flight. Everything looking good on Discovery. Standing by for main engine cutoff. That will be followed a few seconds later by the separation of the external fuel tank.
CONAN: And we're awaiting the signal that indeed main engine cutoff has occurred.
MR. HARRIS: And Neal, one thing that's…
Mr. NAVIAS: The Booster Officer reports that we have main engine cutoff. Standing by for external tank separation.
CONAN: Richard?
MR. HARRIS: One thing that's interesting is we actually have cameras. NASA has not often offered this view of, from the space shuttle. But they actually do have cameras that are giving a live image of the main engine, of the…
Mr. NAVIAS: External tank separation confirmed. Commander Steve Lindsey now maneuvering Discovery to the correct orientation so that video and digital stills of the external tank can be captured by cameras embedded in the shuttle's umbilical well.
A smooth ride to orbit for the Shuttle Discovery embarking on what is expected to be a…
KESTENBAUM: That's an incredible view. It looks like it has been taken from a camera.
Mr. NAVIAS: …thirteen day mission.
CONAN: Hmm. Carl Walz, could you tell us, main engine cutoff. What does that feel like?
Mr. WALZ: Well, you're going from three Gs to zero Gs, almost instantaneously, and so all of a sudden things that felt very heavy now are floating. And so, it's just a, it's a fabulous feeling and you are really in space there.
CONAN: and I imagine that adrenaline was building up, well, if it's possible to peak, it's peaking now.
Mr. WALZ: Oh, absolutely. Because, you know, you're getting that fabulous view of the earth and you're truly weightless. And now the crew is getting out of their seats. They're pulling out cameras and they're going to start taking pictures of that external tank.
CONAN: And, record any information they can possibly get. Richard Harris, fill us a little bit more in on the significance of this mission. We're beginning to realize, halfway through 2006, the retirement of the space shuttle as a vehicle itself not all that far off.
Mr. HARRIS: Yes, indeed. And really, this mission is primarily a test flight to make sure that the fixes that they've put in over the last couple of years will actually work. They'll spend a lot of time on space walks inspecting the orbiter. They have all sorts of gizmos on extension arms, and so on, to look at the tiles and the various other heat shield parts of the shuttle.
So, a lot of it is just sort of to say, you know, can we, are we confident enough now in our design that we can pick up the pace a little bit? Because if they can't pick up the pace of the space shuttle launches, NASA's going to run out of time long before they run out of components and other things that they really need to bring up to the international space station. And I think they'll just have to declare it finished at some point whether or not they in fact have everything up there that they wanted to have there.
CONAN: And the next launch, though, is scheduled, I think, next month.
Mr. HARRIS: That's right, the end of august is the next one on the agenda. And, so that's, so they're hoping to be able to pick up the pace, but, I mean, a lot of that depends on the data that they get back from this mission, whether everything is really going to work.
CONAN: And indeed, David Kestenbaum, will the analysis work, of going over the pictures that people are taking now and all the pictures that have been recorded already, that's going to be done there in Florida and in Houston as well?
KESTENBAUM: Some of it, some of its going to be quite quick. They're going to have briefings an hour, and a few hours later, and some of it, as I said, some of the pictures are actually on the thawed rocket boosters, and some of it will take more detailed analysis that will take a couple of days.
But we heard them say it looked clean, right?
Mr. HARRIS: Yes.
KESTENBAUM: They made some comment about that on the way up, so they didn't see anything obvious, at least.
CONAN: And Carl, as I understand it, obviously you're not listening to the voices of Bruce Buckingham or Rob Navias or their equivalents when you're on your mission. You're just hearing this chatter back and forth.
Mr. WALZ: Yeah, well, we were listening to the flight loops, and so we're, you know, just the calls. It's a very business-like, because, you know, in the event there's a problem you need to have a clear channel so you can relay information. So, yeah, you don't have the commentary.
CONAN: Probably not necessary after, how many rehearsals would you conservatively guess?
Mr. WALZ: Oh, we do, you know, probably hundreds of simulations of launches, landings, aborts. And, so, of course this is the culmination of all that.
CONAN: And David, just before we have to leave, would you remind us who is on board and who are going to be the stars as this mission continues?
KESTENBAUM: Well, there are seven astronauts on board. I'll just mention Thomas Reiter is a German, of the European Space Agency, and he's going to be actually delivered to the International Space System for six months. He was on MEAR for six months, so he'll be nearing, at the end of this, a full year in orbit.
Three of the astronauts have never been in space before. Mike Fossum was in your class, Carl, right?
Mr. WALZ: Well, Mike actually, he and I had applied when we were in the Air Force together, and he came in much later. But he kept applying, and you know, one of those things, you know, never give up, and he never did. He was very persistent and finally got his chance to fly.
KESTENBAUM: So, he's been e-mailing you, you said, yes?
Mr. WALZ: Yeah, I got a couple of e-mails. He was very excited about flying and of course, he's the first graduate from Texas A&M to fly. So he's very excited. All the Aggies are very proud.
KESTENBAUM: The other, Mark Kelly, is the pilot. He's been in space before. Lisa Nowack and Stephanie Wilson are mission specialists. They're going to be moving the robotic arms and unloading the space shuttle. They have not been in space before. Piers Sellers is British. I felt bad for him when he was, he's English, I felt bad for him when he was on the launch pad and England had lost in the World Cup and the launch got scrubbed. And Thomas Reiter, who I mentioned before.
CONAN: His name is what Sellers? Presumably they call him Inspector Clouseau?
KESTENBAUM: It's Piers.
CONAN: Piers, oh, I see. Not quite the same. Carl Walz and David Kestenbaum with us from the Kennedy Space Flight Center in Florida. Richard Harris is with us here in Studio 3A. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.
And again, if you're joining us late, the Shuttle Discovery launched from the Kennedy Space Center at about 38 minutes past the hour, and has now achieved orbit. The separation of the solid rocket boosters proceeded without a hitch. There was main engine cutoff and then the main fuel tank also separated, again, without a hitch.
And let's, Richard Harris, as we look ahead towards this mission, obviously everybody wants it to be flawless, but this late in the program, you're still describing this as flight test?
Mr. HARRIS: Absolutely. I think that NASA made a, realized they made a mistake when they called the space shuttle program operational. In fact, it should have been, according to Admiral Gehman, who investigated the Columbia disaster, it should have always been considered experimental. And I think NASA has changed its attitude.
So the remaining space shuttle flights will be - I mean, some of the jet pilots who were testing jets and so on and then were asked to investigate the Challenger or the Columbia disaster were sort of surprised that this was considered operational, because, you know, it's been, you know, 114 or so missions. And they were saying that, gee, that's really just getting going on a flight test program for a real aircraft. We wouldn't consider something operational after just 100 flights or 200 flights.
So, I think NASA had realized, oops! Time to realize that this is going to be an experimental craft for the rest of its life.
CONAN: Indeed, they realized every craft they have ever sent with a human aboard has been an experimental flight.
Mr. HARRIS: Absolutely. Yeah.
CONAN: And that's, as we look towards the completion of the International Space Station, whether they declare it completed or whether indeed all the parts are there, what, first of all, what are they doing now? I mean, obviously they had to bank down on some of their activities as they've had very little in the way of spare parts, the extra equipment to build onto the space station, to extend it.
Mr. HARRIS: Indeed. And they've been down to a crew of two since the Columbia disaster, or shortly thereafter, so they've only had two people up there. They assumed, actually, that the two people up there would only be able to do maintenance and do nothing else. In fact, they have been able to do some modest experiments, and so on, so it hasn't been simply caretaking. It has been some activity up there. But, yeah, there's basically it's, you know, they're trying to make the best of a situation that is clearly not the way they had envisioned it when they thought about what the space station was going to be all about.
CONAN: And at this point, the space station itself is described as a, well, kind of a strange place to live. A little rickety, for one thing.
Mr. HARRIS: Yeah, not as bad as its predecessors, I think, as, particularly some horror stories from the Russian space stations, and so on. But, yeah, it's, it has, it's not going to have all of its components. Its not going to have some of the most important components for studying biology at very low levels of gravity, so yeah, its less than perfect.
CONAN: Carl Walz, are you still with us? No, I think Carl Walz has left us there in Florida. He and David Kestenbaum have left our site, and so we'll thank them for their participation today.
NPR science correspondent David Kestenbaum and also astronaut Carl Walz, a veteran of four space flights, logged 231 days in space - among them time on MEAR, I think, so I wanted to ask him about that - so has left us for now. Obviously we'll have continuing coverage of this story later today on NPR News. So stay tuned for that.
But, Richard Harris, as we look at this, at this point, NASA has to be very pleased.
Mr. HARRIS: Yes. I think they really needed this launch. I think that the feeling among analysts is that if anything really major happens to the space shuttle at this point, that's the end of the program - probably the end of the International Space Station - certainly construction. There's still, Russian spacecraft can still bring a few people up, and Europeans are developing systems to bring up some cargo. But the amount of cargo you can bring up is quite limited compared to what the space shuttle can bring up to the space station.
It cannot bring up any large components that are sitting on the ground waiting to go there in Florida, including parts built by other nationalities who are -who've invested a lot of money in the space station and really want to see it completed, want to send their own astronauts up, and so on. So, yeah, this would, you know, unfortunately, NASA's in the position where every mission now has to be a real success or they will, you know, just run out of time so quickly.
CONAN: and are they getting caught up, also, in all the financial realities of President Bush's decision to say, look, we're going to finish that space station and then go back to the moon and to Mars?
Mr. HARRIS: Absolutely. That's the real issue. Well, there are two issues why 2010, the end of 2010, is the deadline. One of which is it costs a lot of money to run the shuttle program, and the money you're putting into that means you're not developing space ships to go elsewhere. So that's one very critical point.
The other thing is the commission that investigated the Columbia disaster said, really, if you are going to fly this, you can fly it for a few more years, but if you want to fly it beyond 2010, our judgment as aerospace experts is the vehicle needs to be recertified for flight. Which basically means you have to pretend it's a new vehicle and say, would you approve this today, if you were looking at it from afresh?
And the reality is the first flight was 1981. This is 1970s technology basically, I mean, with some significant upgrades along the way. But the basic vehicle is an old, old vehicle, and NASA doesn't think that they want to go through the time and expense and trouble of seeing if they can recertify it for flight. And I think that they are, you know, really sticking to that 2010 deadline, or so it would appear.
CONAN: Richard Harris, thanks very much. I expect we'll be hearing more from you later in the day as well. NPR science correspondent Richard Harris here with us in Studio 3A, in Washington.
Again, the Shuttle Discovery has launched from Florida and achieved orbit. I'm Neal Conan, NPR News, in Washington.
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