Bill Gates Addresses 'Tough Questions' On Poverty And Power : Goats and Soda The billionaire philanthropist says the country needs a simpler system to help the poor navigate housing, health care and job opportunities.
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Bill Gates Addresses 'Tough Questions' On Poverty And Power

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Bill Gates Addresses 'Tough Questions' On Poverty And Power

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Bill Gates Addresses 'Tough Questions' On Poverty And Power

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MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

Just a few months ago, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates fell from his spot as the No. 1 wealthiest man in the world. Now, that happened in part because he has given so much of his money away. He's pumped billions of dollars into health, development and education initiatives. He's given a lot to NPR.

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

One telling data point - today his foundation is the second-largest donor to the World Health Organization after the United States. All of this has given Bill Gates a lot of influence, and that power has also attracted some sharp scrutiny. Today he addresses some of the most frequent criticisms that he has received when it comes to his giving in an open letter and with us. Mr. Gates, welcome to the program.

BILL GATES: Thank you.

SHAPIRO: Some of the criticism that you've received comes down to power. The Gates Foundation has greater spending power than many countries. But unlike a government, you don't have checks and balances. You don't have the same level of transparency. A group called Global Justice now put out a report saying that your foundation is being allowed to speak too loudly and too many actors in international development are falling into line with the foundation's misguided priorities. How do you respond to that criticism?

GATES: Well, we're fascinated to know what alternate priorities are being suggested because we want to make sure we're being very smart and just about which things we pick. You know, in health we look at what's causing the debts, and we're very driven by that. We've made sure that data's being collected in a better way. You know, basically, in a world where people have private wealth, you know, you could spend money on yourself. You can, you know, buy expensive things. We've chosen to go after malaria and HIV as our priorities. And our money will be spent down based on those causes. And if people have constructive criticism, boy, that's the way the world moves forward, is to listen to what they think we ought to be doing differently.

SHAPIRO: You are very hands-on with your work. And you acknowledge in this year's letter that some of your critics don't speak up because they don't want to risk losing money. Can you tell me about some of the specific steps you take to get feedback, even feedback that you might not want to hear, and encourage people to be frank with you even at risk of perhaps alienating their funder?

GATES: Well, academic communities are usually pretty vocal. So even, you know, the TB community, HIV community where we're a significant part of the funding, you know, when I'm going out, people are saying that, hey, there's a new path you're not funding or the path you're on right now looks like a dead end. You know, this online world lets people give us a lot of feedback. And, you know, we're not wedded to any particular program. We're trying to improve human health. That's our biggest cause. And our second cause is U.S. education. Amazingly, in the health area there's more agreement about what needs to be done than there is, say, in U.S. education.

SHAPIRO: One of the big themes of your letter this year is investment in the United States. And you traveled this year throughout the American South looking at poverty on the domestic level. Can you describe something you saw that you think will shape your giving in the years ahead?

GATES: Well, the complexity of how a poor person has to deal with housing authorities and health authorities and education authorities, filling out different forms. It is very complicated. You know, so understanding how those programs could be more holistic, how it could be simpler - you know, it's all very well-meaning, but for them it's hard, particularly when they're facing a crisis, to get what's needed.

SHAPIRO: That sounds intriguing and also very different from the work the foundation has done in the past. Are you talking about in a way redefining the American bureaucracy?

GATES: I think everybody who works on poverty has seen that just having these vertical approaches is falling short in terms of effectiveness and efficiency. We gathered together what we called the panel to look at poverty, 25 experts with different expertise. And they went out to many communities and pulled together a report about what types of jobs, what types of programs would be helpful. And, you know, our foundation alone can't possibly fund all those things. We'll continue to be mostly specialized in education. But I think it's brought a lot of philanthropists together to think, OK, if we front various pieces of this, how can it be more coordinated to have a significant impact?

SHAPIRO: Before I let you go, you formed this foundation in the year 2000 with your wife Melinda, and virtually every year since then you have made the argument that this is a better time to be alive than it has ever been. And you make that argument again in your 2018 letter. And I wonder whether you think people remain unconvinced, and if so, why.

GATES: Oh, absolutely. People are exposed to the setbacks - the natural disasters, the disagreement. And so when you say to somebody, hey, you know, the murder rate in the country is less than half of what it was, they're kind of surprised. They, you know, think, oh, it must be the most violent time both globally and domestically. And that's a bit of a problem because if you want to look at why we've made progress, if you're blind to it, you're both, you know, a bit depressed and not getting the benefit of where things really went super well. So we can be outraged about the things we haven't fixed yet while actually recognizing that we've made a lot of progress and that that should inspire us and educate us.

SHAPIRO: Bill Gates of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, thanks for taking the time to talk with us today.

GATES: Thank you.

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