< 'Fight The Power': A Tale Of 2 Anthems (With The Same Name)

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

The Isley Brothers spent the 1960s churning out hits like "Twist And Shout," "This Old Heart Of Mine" and "It's Your Thing." But their non-confrontational image underwent a serious change in 1975.

(SOUNDBITE OF ISLEY BROTHERS SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

GREENE: "Fight The Power" was a top-five hit for the Isleys. Ernie Isley wrote it and played guitar. His brother Ronald sang it. And it had a rebellious message that took everyone by surprise.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

THE ISLEY BROTHERS: (Singing) Time is truly wastin'. There's no guarantee. Smile is in the makin'. We got to fight the powers that be.

GREENE: Carlton Ridenhour was 15 years old - a lifelong Isley Brothers fan - when that song changed his life. He would later take the stage name Chuck D. And as a member of Public Enemy in 1989, he wrote his own "Fight The Power," commissioned by Spike Lee for the film about racial tensions in Brooklyn, "Do The Right Thing."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

PUBLIC ENEMY: (Rapping) Got to give us what we want, got to give us what we need. Our freedom of speech is freedom of death. We got to fight the powers that be. Let me hear you say, fight the power. Fight the power.

GREENE: All right, so get this. For NPR's series American Anthem, we arranged for Chuck D to sit down with Ernie Isley and talk about their songs and their inspirations. Due to some adult language here, kids listening might want to rejoin us in about seven minutes or so. All right. Ernie Isley's "Fight The Power" came out in post-Watergate America when trust in government was dangerously low and the country was in recession to boot.

ERNIE ISLEY: Everybody had a way of relating to the message.

CHUCK D: But nobody knew what was happening up with the presidency.

ISLEY: Right.

CHUCK D: Nixon had been (unintelligible).

ISLEY: Yeah, he was out. And Ford was in.

CHUCK D: Ford was shaky.

ISLEY: Yeah.

CHUCK D: And nobody knew what '76 was going to bring.

ISLEY: Knew what's going to come - yeah.

CHUCK D: But for black folks in 1975...

ISLEY: Yes.

CHUCK D: It was a serious...

ISLEY: Yes, yes.

CHUCK D: ...Serious time of doubt because when white folks got it bad, there's a basement underneath that that's got hell going on.

ISLEY: But it's like - it was optimistic. You know, time is really wastin'. There's no guarantee. Smile is in the making. We got to fight the powers that be. It's like, ah. So you're optimistic. You're not going to run. It's a confrontation.

CHUCK D: Right.

ISLEY: But you don't run, kind of like being able to speak truth to power. And, of course, when you do that, power doesn't run you...

CHUCK D: Yeah.

ISLEY: ...Because you're saying it to point out the shortcomings, the hypocrisy.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

THE ISLEY BROTHERS: (Singing) I tried to play my music. They say my music's too loud. I tried talking about it. I got the big runaround. And when I rolled with the punches, I got knocked on the ground by all this [expletive] going down.

CHUCK D: That spoke loud to me, and I didn't even curse at the time.

ISLEY: Yeah.

CHUCK D: But that was the first time I ever heard a curse on a record.

ISLEY: Yeah. I started singing or reciting, with all this nonsense going down. And Ronald took that into account. And when it came time to sing it, I heard him say, with all this BS going down. And I was sitting there like, well, he's probably going to change that. Ronald, you're not going to change that. He said, change what?

(LAUGHTER)

ISLEY: He said, no, I'm not going to change it.

CHUCK D: Was he hot that day or mad at something?

ISLEY: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was just, like, a matter of fact. And I said, you know, man, you know, some people may not like it. He said, Ernie, if you can say what you feel and it's embraced, wonderful. And if you can say what you feel and it's not embraced, at least you said what you feel. I was like, yeah, that makes sense.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

THE ISLEY BROTHERS: (Singing) Time is really wastin'. There's no guarantee. Smile is in the making. We got to fight the powers that be.

CHUCK D: That stuck with me, and it raised me. Just 14 years later when Spike Lee had asked us to come up with something that signified this movie that he was making about unrest that was in the New York City area...

ISLEY: Yep.

CHUCK D: And I need an anthem. And the thing that kept resonating in my mind was, like, the climate of the particular time.

ISLEY: Yes.

CHUCK D: We were in the middle of R and B. That's Reagan and Bush.

ISLEY: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

CHUCK D: So "Fight The Power," the sensibilities of the song - we don't want a sample from the record. But what we want to do is carry the torch of the meaning...

ISLEY: That's right.

CHUCK D: ...To yell and scream back at hypocrisy because they say, you know, we play our music. They definitely say rap music's too loud.

ISLEY: Too loud.

CHUCK D: You know?

ISLEY: (Laughter).

CHUCK D: And we roll with the punches, and we get knocked on the ground with all this BS going down. And our whole thing is, like, we're always going to be criticized for cursing on records. And - but - and so it was like, how do we carry the torch?

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

PUBLIC ENEMY: (Rapping) Fight the power. Fight the power. We got to fight the powers that be. Elvis was a hero to most, be he never meant [expletive] to me. You see, straight-out racist that sucker was, simple and plain. [Expletive] him and John Wayne 'cause I'm black...

CHUCK D: Elvis was a hero to most.

ISLEY: Yeah.

CHUCK D: But he never meant S to me.

ISLEY: Yeah.

CHUCK D: Now, you know, Elvis is in my household. But there's other records in the crates.

ISLEY: Yes.

CHUCK D: And there are greater artists that's in the crates - not to say he was whack. He was a very talented dude. But...

ISLEY: Yes.

CHUCK D: The Isley Brothers are my heroes, not these people.

ISLEY: When you guys came out with your "Fight The Power" and I was listening, you said, Elvis (laughter).

CHUCK D: So did it catch your attention when you heard it or...

ISLEY: Yeah. I listened to the, fight the powers that be. And then all of a sudden, Elvis. I was like, what? All right, man. You know, you throw it up against the wall.

CHUCK D: (Laughter).

ISLEY: It was like, yeah. OK.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

PUBLIC ENEMY: (Rapping) Fight the power.

CHUCK D: That was our, all that [expletive] going down, in that particular song.

ISLEY: That was a tremendous hit in its own right. And it was important that you said what you said. So, you know, we might say something. But then you guys was - you know, somebody else, man. It's like - it's an extension.

CHUCK D: Right.

ISLEY: You know? And it's like an embrace...

CHUCK D: Yeah.

ISLEY: ...You know, that all of us can, you know, connect through generations.

CHUCK D: We're all tied together. And I'm really - I'm happy to meet one of my extended family members.

ISLEY: Man, we're glad that you all did. We thought - we couldn't help but smile.

CHUCK D: Thank you, sir.

ISLEY: Thank you.

CHUCK D: Thank you powers that be.

ISLEY: Yes. That's right, man.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FIGHT THE POWER")

PUBLIC ENEMY: (Rapping) 1989, the number, another summer...

GREENE: That was Ernie Isley and Chuck D talking about their songs, which were both called "Fight The Power." Thanks to the Mr Musichead Gallery in Hollywood for hosting that conversation. And there's video at our website. Just go to nprmusic.org.

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