100 Years On, Pete Seeger Gets Immortalized Through 'Smithsonian Folkways' Smithsonian Folkways archivist and Pete Seeger expert Jeff Place talks about Pete Seeger: The Smithsonian Folkways Collection, due out on what would have been Seeger's 100th birthday.
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Pete Seeger's Legacy Gets Immortalized With 'Smithsonian Folkways' Collection

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Pete Seeger's Legacy Gets Immortalized With 'Smithsonian Folkways' Collection

Pete Seeger's Legacy Gets Immortalized With 'Smithsonian Folkways' Collection

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PETE SEEGER: (Singing) If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning.


That song, and so many other American folk classics, was written by Pete Seeger. The musician, who died in 2014, traveled the world as an ambassador of folk music through much of the 20th century and some of the 21st. Along with Woody Guthrie and others, Seeger was one of the founding members of the New York City-based Almanac Singers. The group borrowed old folk melodies to sing about contemporary issues. This week marks the hundredth anniversary of Seeger's birth. And to commemorate his centennial, "Pete Seeger: The Smithsonian Folkways Collection" is being issued.


SEEGER: (Singing) If I had a song.

CORNISH: The book that comes with it was written by curator and archivist at Smithsonian Folkways Jeff Place. Welcome to the studio.

JEFF PLACE: Well, thanks for having me.

CORNISH: We know him as someone who borrows and brings to the mainstream certain things he finds in other cultures. What did you learn about Pete Seeger as a writer looking through his papers?

PLACE: You know, he was a great writer. He had, like, I guess he had a column called Appleseeds in a magazine called Sing Out! for many, many, many decades and a number of different books where he sort of wrote about the songs he was doing.

CORNISH: And in a way thought of his work as journalism.

PLACE: Yeah. And he was great on going and finding these little, like, quotes in political history books and history books and other books, you know, in literature and then kind of taking them out and using them in his columns. Like, the song "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" came out of a Russian novel. He found a line in there which inspired him to do "Where Have All The Flowers Gone."


SEEGER: (Singing) Where have all the flowers gone? Long time passing. Where have all the flowers gone? Long time ago. Where have all the flowers gone? The girls have picked them, every one. Oh, when you ever learn? Oh, when will you ever learn?

CORNISH: I want to talk about some of the songs that were never released. One of them that's featured here was recorded in the 1940s. Pete Seeger was sent to war, right? He was stationed in the Pacific. And in the collection, you have a series of his letters. What was he writing about? And what do we come to understand about this period?

PLACE: Well, you know, Pete Seeger was in the service and in the Pacific and hanging out with folklorists a lot, you know? So he kind of went over there, and he used the opportunity to record, like, you know, Indigenous people from that part of the world. And he recorded a lot of other soldier songs. He had this sort of - it looked like a mimeograph letter or something he'd send home to all his friends reporting on his findings called Reports From The Marianas.


SEEGER: This next song is one I learned from some soldiers who were stationed down in New Caledonia. And there'd been some Australians down there, and the Australians taught them this song. It's called "Dinky Die." (Singing) He went up to London and straight away strode to army headquarters on Horseferry Road to see all the bludgers and dodge all the strafe by getting soft jobs on the headquarter's staff. Dinky die, dinky dinky die, dinky die, dinky dinky die - by getting soft jobs on the headquarter's staff.

Now, that's all there is to it...

CORNISH: We think of Seeger as a pacifist. What do you learn from that period about how he came to that position or sort of his thoughts on that experience?

PLACE: Well, you know, I once heard an interview of Pete being asked by a member of the audience, and he was saying, well, Mr. Seeger, you know, you don't believe in war or fighting for any cause? And he said, no, that's not true. There was a time period in the 1940s when there was a reason to fight for the cause, and I was there. And I would do it again if it happened again.

CORNISH: I want to talk about another song. This one is called the "Ballad Of Dr. Dearjohn." It was recorded in 1963. And how did you find it in the collection? What's the history of it?

PLACE: Well, you know, the thing about the "Folkways Collection" and Pete Seeger, he put out 70 albums for Folkways, and he also put out three or four hundred extra tapes of additional material that was never used. So I started going through all those tapes, and I found this song that had been written and published in a magazine called Broadside. And what was interesting about it - it was contemporaneous to 1962 and the Canadian health care law, the Saskatchewan law. And the debates in the song were identical to the whole thing we've been hearing about Obamacare in the last few years.


SEEGER: (Singing) I'm a rather poor man with a worrisome life. Ten years I've been wed to a sickly wife. She does nothing all day but sit down and cry and wishing to God that she would die. I take her each week to see Dr. Dearjohn. She likes him all right, but his fees are so strong. It's hospital, therapy, medicine, too. The bills are gigantic. And what can I do?

CORNISH: Listening to a song like this really reinforces how he was carrying on this tradition of broadsides. Can you talk about this idea and how committed he was to it?

PLACE: Yeah. Well, the thing was - you have to go back many, you know, hundreds of years and before there was, you know, all this media and, you know, radio, television and all this. And what would happen is political events or satires or things would happen, and someone would write a satirical song or a topical song about it. And they'd publish it on pieces of paper for, like, selling for, like, a nickel. And they were called broadside ballads. So this is sort of out of that tradition of people who were trying to write broadside ballads in the 1960s.

CORNISH: Now, Pete Seeger was born in New York City, and the Hudson River was important to him, especially as he lived further up the river in later years. Can you tell us the story behind the song "Of Time And Rivers Flowing?"

PLACE: Yeah. Pete was a - he spent years and years traveling the country and all over the world actually in the '60s, like, you know, singing. He was one of the first guys to sing multicultural, you know, songs and things like that. And somewhere along the line, apparently it dawned on him that he actually never paid any attention to where he actually lived what was going on there. He says I'm a total stranger in my own hometown when I go home. He'd notice the river was, like - there was sewage floating in the river. But he got to know the shad fishermen. The shad fishermen would take him out and show him all this, like, you know, environmental damage. And so he wrote the song for the shad fishermen.


SEEGER: (Singing) Of time and rivers flowing, the seasons make a song.

CORNISH: He really tried to build movements through his music or at least connect to movements through his music. How does that connect to what you see going on on the landscape today?

PLACE: He has, like - they talk about Pete's children. There's a lot of movements he was a part of that he didn't really start. Or, you know, he'd lend his hand to, like, civil rights movement and things like to happen. But I think that, you know, the other environmental thing on the river was really kind of Pete. Every thought of this had - he thought it was this, like, completely insane thought that he was going to build this boat, a sloop, and sail up and down the bay and, you know, telling people the river was - been playing music and all this stuff. But he did it, and there's still a festival up there every year and all these people who come. And there's still people who are going up and down the river on that boat even after Pete's gone.

CORNISH: That's Jeff Place. He's curator and archivist at Smithsonian Folkways. The collection we've been talking about is "Pete Seeger: The Smithsonian Folkways Collection." Thank you for talking with us.

PLACE: Oh, you're welcome.


SEEGER: (Singing) And the gods of moving waters will tell us all they know.

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