< Weekly Wrap: Eurovision Takes The Stage, Plus China Tariffs, Abortion Restrictions

AUNT BETTY: Hey, y'all. This is Sam's Aunt Betty. This week on the show, from NPR member station WBUR in Boston, senior producer and host Ben Brock Johnson and reporter Zeninjor Enwemeka. All right, let's start the show.

(SOUNDBITE OF ROLLING STONES SONG, "START ME UP")

SAM SANDERS, HOST:

Betty got it.

ZENINJOR ENWEMEKA, BYLINE: Yeah.

SANDERS: She was thinking about it.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah, yeah. That was good.

SANDERS: She works hard.

ENWEMEKA: I appreciate the effort.

SANDERS: Yes, yes.

BEN BROCK JOHNSON, BYLINE: She struggled with mine, clearly.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Hey, y'all. From NPR, I'm Sam Sanders. IT'S BEEN A MINUTE. Happy weekend from Boston, where I am this weekend. So excited for a Boston WBUR takeover of the show today. Both of my guests are BUR folks - Zeninjor Enwemeka, reporter at WBUR covering biz and tech, and Ben Brock Johnson, host of the WBUR and Reddit podcast "Endless Thread," all about fun Reddit stuff.

JOHNSON: Yeah. Fun, not fun, scary, intriguing.

SANDERS: So we're joined in studio today by the Rolling Stones and their song "Start Me Up."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "START ME UP")

ROLLING STONES: (Singing) You can start me up. I'll never stop. I've been running hot.

SANDERS: Not just because it's a great song, but because they're in the news this week. Have you heard the Rolling Stones news?

ENWEMEKA: No. What's the Rolling Stones news?

JOHNSON: That Keith is still alive?

SANDERS: They're all still alive, and very much alive. So the band was set to have this big stadium tour, and then they had to postpone it for a while because Mick Jagger, the lead singer - he actually had heart valve replacement surgery at 75. But he says, we're still good to go. The tour is back on. They're doing 17 stadium stops later this year.

ENWEMEKA: Wow.

JOHNSON: Oh, my God.

ENWEMEKA: That is dedication.

SANDERS: Right? And so he posts this video that I want to try to find for you all where he just shows himself dancing wildly to show that he's back at it again.

JOHNSON: Oh, my God.

SANDERS: He's never going to quit.

ENWEMEKA: Oh, my God.

SANDERS: It's insane.

ENWEMEKA: Who is his doctor? Someone should interview that person.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: They just updated his software. It just took a little while.

(LAUGHTER)

ENWEMEKA: Living his best life.

SANDERS: It is fitting, though, because this song, "Start Me Up," the lyrics say, start me up, I'll never stop. That is true for Mick Jagger. That is true for him. Mick, keep dancing.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "START ME UP")

ROLLING STONES: (Singing) If you start me up, I'll never stop, never stop, never stop, never stop. You make a grown man cry.

SANDERS: All right. Let's talk about news news.

ENWEMEKA: Oh, yeah, the news.

JOHNSON: News news.

SANDERS: Anyway, every week, we start the show by asking my guests to describe their week of news in only three words. Zeninjor, you're up first.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: What are your three words?

ENWEMEKA: Thanks trade war.

(LAUGHTER)

ENWEMEKA: It's a trade war, guys.

SANDERS: With China.

ENWEMEKA: Exactly. You know, this back-and-forth between the U.S. and China - the latest round, the Trump administration slapped new tariffs - $300 billion worth of goods from China. China, of course, responded with its own tariffs. But did you guys see the list of the Trump tariffs?

SANDERS: I started reading it, and I just got depressed.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah, it includes...

JOHNSON: All the things you love.

SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah. I mean, it includes so many things. We're talking about everything from live animals to lacrosse sticks. Another thing that I thought was interesting on the list is something that everyone buys, which is shoes.

SANDERS: Really?

ENWEMEKA: Yeah. I did some reporting on that this week. And did you know that most of the shoes sold in the U.S. come from China?

SANDERS: I don't doubt that now that you say it.

JOHNSON: I feel like everything comes from China, so I don't - it doesn't surprise me.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah. I mean, in some way or other, you're probably right.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: But it's something like 69% of shoes sold in the U.S.

JOHNSON: Whoa.

SANDERS: So will these tariffs make my shoes cost more money?

ENWEMEKA: They're going to make your shoes cost more money.

SANDERS: Like how much?

ENWEMEKA: Let's say you have a sneaker.

SANDERS: Yes.

ENWEMEKA: The sneaker right now maybe costs about $160.

SANDERS: What are these sneakers?

ENWEMEKA: Hey, you know, you got to get your - you got to - you know, you got to step your shoe game up.

SANDERS: The Yeezys.

JOHNSON: All right.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah, maybe the Yeezys, maybe something else.

SANDERS: OK.

ENWEMEKA: But let's say you got some sneakers that, right now, cost $160.

SANDERS: Yes.

ENWEMEKA: With the tariffs, they'd cost somewhere around $200. And we're not just talking about, like, the high-end shoes. We're talking about across every price point.

SANDERS: Really?

ENWEMEKA: So even your cheaper shoes would cost a little more.

SANDERS: So my question, though, in the year of this trade war, this back-and-forth between Trump and China, he's been doing things to offset some of the impact. So a lot of the agriculture tariffs...

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: ...Have been offset by direct subsidies to farmers. Is there a possibility for, like, a shoe subsidy (laughter) or something like that?

ENWEMEKA: Maybe. I'm sure - you know, I'm sure some of these companies are really - are looking at that.

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: You know, I think even with - on the agriculture side, there's - you know, some of that is still pending. A lot of people sort of submitted to kind of get a little bit of a reprieve from those tariffs. So we'll probably see some footwear companies trying to do the same thing. But again, this is a long list of a lot of things.

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: So there's going to be quite of a line of...

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: ...Different industries trying to maybe get some bit of a break here.

SANDERS: Yeah.

JOHNSON: This makes me think about when I was 11 years old and I really wanted the Nike Airs.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

JOHNSON: And my parents told me I had to get LA Gears.

SANDERS: I'm so sorry. (Laughter) Oh, my God.

ENWEMEKA: The light-up? The ones that lit up? The light-up LA Gears?

JOHNSON: I just - I remember they had a lot of very bright shoelaces.

SANDERS: Oh. There are two kinds of people in this world, Nike Air people and LA Gear people.

JOHNSON: I was an LA Gear person. And it's interesting, right? You have to think about, like, I can buy stupid expensive shoes if I really want to, but I feel like this is going to really impact people who are buying shoes for kids...

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

JOHNSON: ...People who are on the line of, like, being able to buy those shoes. And that makes me - I don't know. That makes me sad still, I guess.

SANDERS: Yeah. But it feels like overall, when I talk to people in the world, no one's really buzzing about this trade war. For whatever reason, it hasn't really felt like it's hit our pocketbooks yet.

JOHNSON: True.

SANDERS: Do - does this new round in any way seem to indicate that it might start to actually hit us where it hurts?

ENWEMEKA: It might.

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: I mean, we're talking about all sorts of things. I mean, right now, we're focusing on shoes, but it's like, you know, spices, meat - all sorts of things - electronics, toys, you know, speaking of, you know, things that you want to buy your kids. So it's going to impact a lot of different items. And, you know, we can expect that the companies aren't going to eat those costs.

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: The companies are going to...

SANDERS: Pass it on.

ENWEMEKA: ...Pass it on to consumers.

JOHNSON: Of course.

SANDERS: My question, and my - I kind of marvel at Donald Trump's skill at this. Like, when you hear farmers and folks in the Midwest who voted for Trump and support him, they'll be asked over and over again, how do you feel about these tariffs?

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: They'll say, it's hurting my pocketbook. It's losing me money. But I still support Donald Trump.

JOHNSON: Totally.

SANDERS: Because his heart's in the right place, and someone needs to get China. And he's managed to make this issue that could be purely economic and just about your pocketbook - he's made it emotional and visceral.

ENWEMEKA: That's true. Hearts and minds.

SANDERS: If the - yeah. Like, he is winning these hearts and minds in a way that is - I don't know - kind of amazing to behold.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

SANDERS: Anyway, my three words are to the courts because we have seen several laws be passed in statehouses across the country that will most definitely end up in court. I'm talking about new abortion restrictions in states like Alabama. In that state this week, their governor, Kay Ivey, signed a bill that would ban nearly all abortions in the state. And it makes it a crime for doctors to perform abortions at any stage of pregnancy unless the mother's life is in danger. There's no exceptions for rape or incest.

The law is not set to take effect for several months, but there's already folks on the right who say this might be too much. So Pat Robertson, famous televangelist, he opposes abortion. On his show "The 700 Club," he said, quote, "I think Alabama has gone too far." He said the law was extreme and says he thinks this law would lose at the Supreme Court. So the question with this is, if you have people on the same side saying this might be too much, what do these lawmakers hope to accomplish with it? I'm not sure yet.

JOHNSON: It's really interesting too to see just the number of personal stories that pop up when this larger debate starts to happen.

SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah.

JOHNSON: Like, you know, I was scrolling through Twitter last night, as you do, and just seeing a lot of people tell personal stories about this, which I think is always helpful to me because it - I don't know - it makes me understand the issue better.

SANDERS: Yeah.

JOHNSON: But it is also interesting that there are people on the right who are like, this might go too far.

SANDERS: Yeah. Well, and you have not just Alabama passing laws like this. Missouri this week passed an abortion bill that bans abortion at eight weeks of pregnancy. Georgia, Mississippi, Kentucky and Ohio have also passed laws that ban abortion after a heartbeat is detected. And a lot of folks are saying all of this is happening right now because after decades of trying, the GOP has succeeded in packing a lot of courts all throughout the country, even the Supreme Court, with conservatives.

ENWEMEKA: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think - yeah. There are many people who believe Roe v. Wade is settled case law. But clearly there are many Republican lawmakers who are pushing for these bans who, you know, they're looking at the Supreme Court and saying, hey, we have a conservative majority. Now is the time to take a shot at it.

SANDERS: Yeah, yeah. Well, and this is, like, the culmination...

JOHNSON: Yeah, it's, like, 30 years in the making or something. Yeah, yeah.

SANDERS: Yeah. So, I mean, for decades across the country, the GOP has been really focused on winning statehouses and winning court seats.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: And so when you do both of those things, you can pass a law that might be out of the mainstream but can rely on it possibly moving through the courts and being upheld.

ENWEMEKA: Well, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I'm curious to see how this plays out with other states. So we've already seen other states following Alabama. Will more follow? But then on the other side, the blue states, will there be sort of a pushback to that? I mean, we're already seeing here in Massachusetts, at least, there is a bill basically looking to sort of strengthen the laws here.

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: And so I think we might even start to see some of the more liberal areas, blue states start to...

SANDERS: Oh, yeah. We've seen states like New York...

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: ...Vermont, Rhode Island...

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: ...They've gone the other way with abortion.

ENWEMEKA: You know, I think this is definitely going to roil the 2020 race for sure.

SANDERS: Oh, yeah.

ENWEMEKA: And it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

SANDERS: Yeah. You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, the show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sam Sanders in studio with two great guest - Zeninjor Enwemeka, reporter at WBUR covering biz and tech, and Ben Brock Johnson, host of the WBUR and Reddit podcast "Endless Thread." What are your three words?

JOHNSON: Face-based race.

SANDERS: Say that 10 times fast (laughter).

JOHNSON: (Laughter) So this is the story. This week, San Francisco has become the first U.S. city to ban the use of facial recognition technology by the police and local government agencies.

SANDERS: When I saw this, I didn't know that people were doing this already.

JOHNSON: I know.

ENWEMEKA: Oh, yeah. It's been happening for a while.

SANDERS: It's crazy.

JOHNSON: It's been happening for a while. And it's also in the...

ENWEMEKA: Especially within law enforcement.

SANDERS: Really?

JOHNSON: Right. And it's really interesting because we don't have a lot of transparency with how police departments across the country are using this technology. And, you know, big picture, I think the facial recognition story is about how our behaviors around technology as consumers - basically, like, buy now, ask questions later - is influencing sectors that are not consumers at all, right?

SANDERS: Yeah.

JOHNSON: Law enforcement basically opting in to stuff that we don't really understand fully how it works yet. And it's been...

SANDERS: And they don't tell us they're using it.

JOHNSON: And they don't tell us they're using it or how they're using it. And this is, like, so scary and fascinating for a lot of different reasons.

SANDERS: Yeah. So San Francisco's Board of Supervisors, they say, all right, no city, agency, or department, including the police, can use this facial ID technology.

JOHNSON: Right.

SANDERS: SF Police hadn't started using it yet, but they were about to.

JOHNSON: Yep.

SANDERS: So they stopped them from doing it. But, like, I also wonder how much corporate interest used this as well. I remember reading, gosh, a few months ago that when you went to Taylor Swift concerts, they would facial scan you.

JOHNSON: It's everywhere. I mean, airlines are experimenting with this.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: Which airlines?

JOHNSON: I'm going to...

ENWEMEKA: JetBlue.

JOHNSON: JetBlue. I was going to say JetBlue.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah. Yeah, they're doing that here in Boston.

SANDERS: Ooh, Jet who? Jet who? No more (laughter).

ENWEMEKA: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: And it is really scary and especially this idea of data discrimination, right? This idea that these algorithms, these forms of software that are being built - and this is something called computer vision, which has been really in the works for a long time, essentially teaching computers, teaching machines to get really high-level data from visual information. I talked to a venture capitalist, like, four years ago now and said, what are you interested in? What are you, like, investing in? And he was like, computer vision, man.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: Really? Really?

JOHNSON: I'm all in on computer vision. And it has these - it has applications that I think have a lot of promise, right? This idea that - you think about license plate scanners, right?

SANDERS: Yeah.

JOHNSON: And yes, it's nice that I don't have to stop at a toll booth when I'm driving on the highway necessarily. But at the same time, you have to think about data storage. You have to think about who has access to that information and for how long. And there are a lot of police departments that are thinking about using this in the same way that China is using it, just sucking in all of this information publicly while you're walking around in the world.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

JOHNSON: So not actually trying to match somebody's face against a database of people who have already had run-ins with the law, which is also problematic in some ways...

SANDERS: Yeah.

JOHNSON: ...But actually sucking in data on your face and, like, getting a profile on you when you've done nothing wrong, and you're...

SANDERS: So...

JOHNSON: ...Just walking through the city.

SANDERS: But here's my question, Ben.

JOHNSON: Yes. Yes.

SANDERS: So Facebook tries this little facial ID stuff with me in photos that I have.

ENWEMEKA: And they...

JOHNSON: Yep.

ENWEMEKA: ...Make it real cute too.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

SANDERS: And it mixes me up with every black friend I have.

ENWEMEKA: See?

JOHNSON: I know.

ENWEMEKA: And that's the big issue...

JOHNSON: Yes.

SANDERS: Right?

ENWEMEKA: ...Where it - I mean, with a lot of this technology, there are so many biases that are being programmed into it because of who is programming it. It's largely...

JOHNSON: White dudes.

ENWEMEKA: Largely white dudes.

JOHNSON: Yep.

SANDERS: Is there a reality, though, in which these police departments get it right and say, we can do this fairly, and we can trust it and say, this could be good?

JOHNSON: Right.

SANDERS: Or no?

JOHNSON: I think potentially. I mean, in the San Francisco case - right? - part of the idea of stopping use of this technology now is let's wait. Let's figure out how to use this. Let's figure out how to build this technology so that it works first before we deploy it.

SANDERS: Yeah.

JOHNSON: And again, I think it has potential. I think - you know, you look at - any one of us, I'm sure, can look at recent history and be pretty skeptical about how police departments might use this technology effectively or not. And also, like, you're being conditioned to accept it by your devices and by these tech platforms.

SANDERS: Because your iPhone scans your - does it scan your face too, the iPhone?

JOHNSON: I don't know because I'm an Android.

SANDERS: OK.

JOHNSON: But...

ENWEMEKA: Yeah, me too (laughter).

SANDERS: Yeah.

JOHNSON: But there are - apps are already doing this, right? I mean...

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

JOHNSON: ...You've seen, like, Snapchat put filters on your face.

SANDERS: Oh, yeah.

JOHNSON: And, like - you know, like, I think this technology - we're already sort of...

ENWEMEKA: And they make it fun. So you...

JOHNSON: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: ...Don't even think about what else it's capturing about you.

JOHNSON: We're getting cozy.

SANDERS: Snapchat made me a lady last week. I was like, oh, I got it.

ENWEMEKA: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: It's nice, right?

SANDERS: Speaking of scary tech stuff, you have a recent episode all about scary tech?

JOHNSON: (Laughter).

SANDERS: Or...

JOHNSON: Yes.

SANDERS: ...Scary things tech does to us?

JOHNSON: Yes. Well, Endless Thread, the podcast that I make with an excellent team here at WBUR, has a series all about - it's called "Infectious: The Strange Past And Surprising Present Of Vaccines - And Anti-Vaxxers." That's what our latest episode is about.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")

SANDERS: All right. Time for a break. Coming up, we're going to talk about the most bonkers singing competition you've probably never ever watched. It's called the Eurovision Song Contest. After the break, we're going to tell you why you should watch and how this show, this competition, is equal parts "American Idol" and Model UN. You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. We'll be right back.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

SANDERS: We're back. You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, the show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sam Sanders, in studio with two guests - Zeninjor Enwemeka, reporter at WBUR covering biz and tech, and Benjamin Brock Johnson, host of a WBUR and Reddit podcast Endless Thread. I'm not going to say the whole get it wherever you get your podcast. Well, duh.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: It's an unnecessary statement.

JOHNSON: Just like this one.

ENWEMEKA: Exactly.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: Hello.

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: The one you're listening to right now.

JOHNSON: (Laughter).

SANDERS: Yeah. Same way you got this, go get his.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: All right. I want us to turn now and talk about a very big - very, very big event happening this weekend. It is a competition that pits nation against nation, a battle that most Americans will not watch and probably have never even heard of. I'm talking about the Eurovision Song Contest.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TOY")

NETTA: (Singing) I'm not your toy, not your toy, you stupid boy, stupid boy.

SANDERS: What you're hearing right now is last year's winning song by an artist named Netta from Israel. It's called "Toy."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TOY")

NETTA: (Singing) Not your toy.

SANDERS: And the finale of this year's Eurovision Song Contest is Saturday around 3 East Coast time. But you can still go back and find clips. It's worth checking out. Basically, this competition pits 42 countries against each other in this singing competition that is watched by hundreds of millions of people across the globe. Aside from, like, the Olympics and the World Cup, it is one of the very few monocultural events that we have left in the world. It's a big deal.

And I feel like because most Americans don't know a thing about it, I want them to. So I asked Eurovision expert and NPR Pop Culture Happy Hour panelist and writer Glen Weldon to join me to give you all a Eurovision Singing Contest 101.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")

SANDERS: Glen, hi. How are you?

GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: Hey. Very well, thanks.

SANDERS: I want to jump into all of this "Eurovision" chatter with you, a "Eurovision" expert. But I realize that we have to start by clearly explaining what exactly "Eurovision" is for a lot of Americans who don't know and how big of a deal it is.

WELDON: There's a formula. So you take "American Idol." You multiply that by the Olympics...

SANDERS: (Laughter).

WELDON: You sprinkle over a whisper of "RuPaul's Drag Race," and then you divide it all by Model U.N.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

WELDON: This is huge. What I love about this competition, which involves 42 different countries, each selecting a song that competes head-to-head against each other...

SANDERS: And it's new songs, right?

WELDON: New songs. They must be - it must be a new song; they must sing it live. And once the songs are over, which takes a lot of time, then the voting starts. And the voting is needlessly complicated, but here's how it works.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

WELDON: Every country gets a panel of five judges who are in some way associated with the music industry; plus, viewers vote. And then - so there's a voting window that closes. And then my favorite part of this thing is this process of tallying the votes, which a lot of people hate but I love because it is so awkward, Sam.

So what happens is the hosts stare down the barrel of the camera and interview representatives from all 42 countries who then tell how their jury voted. And that all happens over - you know, there's always a satellite delay. And the representative of the country is usually a local celebrity who wants to do a bit.

SANDERS: Oh, (unintelligible)...

WELDON: And then their popular vote is released. Now, you can come into this...

SANDERS: Wait. There's like an Electoral College and the popular vote for "Eurovision."

WELDON: Exactly. Exactly.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

WELDON: So you get part of, like, a constitutional convention. It's like, the proud state of Montana casts all its vote for blah. And then the popular vote comes in. And there's this ranking that you can see. And what I love about it - even a cynical jerk like me goes into this thing, by the end of it, is so exciting, Sam, because if - these rankings keep shifting. So there's no sense of inevitability, like this guy's going to lock. You always are surprised. There's - it's volatile until the very end, and it is hugely exciting.

SANDERS: Does it, like, actually launch careers? Like, is the winner of "Eurovision" this year going to be Europe's Kelly Clarkson?

WELDON: It is huge in Europe because it has been around for 64 years now. And that's something - I think it's hard for Americans to wrap their heads around how big this is there. I mean, this is something that they take enormous pride in. There's great nationalism about it, but it's kind of nationalism with a dance beat - you know, fun nationalism. And it is culturally inescapable for this - what's called the "Eurovision" week. And people gather in their homes; they go to bars to watch and vote.

And here's what people like me react to - this kind of eager, unapologetic, fully over-the-top cheesiness. So when you watch - you'll see pyrotechnics, glitter, elaborate light shows. Some countries will come out in traditional costumes; a lot will come out in fetish gear. About three-quarters of the songs this year are in English. That's pretty much par for the course. And then with the bread and butter of "Eurovision" is is dance pop. So if you can imagine stumbling onto a dance floor in Ibiza or Mykonos and hearing the kind (mimics dance pop bass line), that's...

SANDERS: That's...

WELDON: ...What "Eurovision" is all about.

SANDERS: So - OK. There are - I've heard reports anywhere from 200 million viewers worldwide or more. That is enough to talk about with "Eurovision." But on top of that, the contest itself is always really, really political - even though the organizers say it is not supposed to be.

WELDON: Of course. And the biggest controversy I can remember is in 2016. The winner was Jamala from Ukraine. She sang a song called "1944", which was about, she said, the ethnic cleansing of Crimea by Stalin in the '40s, and Russia complained. Russia said this song is a political statement. It's about our recent annexation of Crimea. There's a lot of back-and-forth, a lot of saber rattling. But in the end, the Russian representative congratulated her for winning.

This year, Ukraine has withdrawn from the competition because the winner, the person who won their Ukrainian contest, did not cancel - refused to cancel any date she had in Russia. And Ukraine said, we're not going to send you if you don't...

SANDERS: Oh.

WELDON: ...And so they pulled her from the competition.

SANDERS: Yeah. Well, this year, the big political - not scandal but the big political dispute with "Eurovision" is where it's being held.

WELDON: Yeah.

SANDERS: So every year, the winner of the previous year, that country hosts the whole contest. Last year's winner is from Israel. So this year, "Eurovision" is happening in Israel. But a lot of folks who might be competing say we don't like that. And they are urging boycotts of the competition.

WELDON: Yeah.

SANDERS: Palestinian singers protested by performing on the rubble of a building destroyed in fighting in the Gaza Strip. Other nations have threatened to boycott the location, as well. There are some reports and some analysts that think that "Eurovision" being in Israel this weekend has led to a recent uptick in violence along the Gaza Strip. It's kind of bananas.

Does that kind of underlying tension ever at all affect the actual singing of the songs and the pageantry, you know, the day of, Glen?

WELDON: They certainly try to keep it out of it, but it's impossible that it doesn't. I mean, I think the Icelandic group - they've gone out of their way to say that they support the Palestinian cause. And so that will come out in some way. The thing about this contest is that it is a very unserious thing that people take very seriously.

And last year, when Israel won, the big thing was - it took a while for us to know whether they were going to hold the contest in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv. I think cooler heads prevailed and it's in Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. Jerusalem would just add fuel to that fire even more.

SANDERS: Yeah. So then do we ever see when "Eurovision" deals with these geopolitical conflicts that, in some magical, wonderful, musical way, "Eurovision" itself helps to soothe some of these tensions? Or are we asking too much of a show like this?

WELDON: Sam, you're adorable. Aw, that's so sweet.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

WELDON: No. No, it's...

SANDERS: Can music bring the world together, Glen?

WELDON: No, it can't. No. But...

SANDERS: OK.

WELDON: But it can be this huge spectacle that four - I was going to say for two hours. It's more like four (laughter).

SANDERS: Oh, my. Oh, my.

WELDON: The world can gather and drink and look at spectacles. And if you're looking out for this year, here's a couple things I want to watch out for. Cyprus has a mid-song costume reveal, which is a lot of fun. And that's what I meant about that little sprinkling of RuPaul. Sweden has this weird gospel-inflected thing going on.

SANDERS: Here for it.

WELDON: But if I had to pick one, it's San Marino, who has a song called "Say Na Na Na," which is a kind of club banger. And it is quintessentially "Eurovision." It is a middle-aged dude - and I can say that; I'm a middle-aged dude - who stands pretty much stock-still while these two dancers are doing very athletic things all around him. And...

SANDERS: Sounds like a Mariah Carey concert.

WELDON: Absolutely. That gives you...

SANDERS: (Laughter).

WELDON: It gives you some Mariah vibes. And the lyrics are like - don't forget my number, call me anytime, be the hero, be the rainbow. Life is beautiful and fine. So be the hero. Be the rainbow.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SAY NA NA NA")

SERHAT: (Singing) Be the hero. Be the rainbow, and sing na, na, na. Sing na, na, na.

SANDERS: Thank you, Glen. Talk to you soon.

WELDON: Thanks, man.

SANDERS: All right. Bye.

WELDON: Bye.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SAY NA, NA, NA")

UNIDENTIFIED SINGERS: (Singing) Na, na, na, na, na, na. Na, na, na, na, na, na.

WELDON: You would think Americans would know more about "Eurovision" because it gave us not just ABBA but also Celine Dion.

ENWEMEKA: Oh.

JOHNSON: Oh, I didn't know that.

ENWEMEKA: I didn't know that.

SANDERS: Yes.

ENWEMEKA: Fun fact.

JOHNSON: She was Canada's?

SANDERS: No. She entered for Switzerland.

JOHNSON: Oh.

SANDERS: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: Interesting.

JOHNSON: Whoa.

SANDERS: Yeah. But like, I don't know. Like, that is - that's bigger than Kelly Clarkson.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

SANDERS: We just don't care, though. We need to care. We need to care.

JOHNSON: Also, I disagree with Glen. I think music should potentially...

SANDERS: Bring the people together?

JOHNSON: ...Bring the people together.

SANDERS: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED SINGERS: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: I believe, like you do.

SANDERS: I want it to happen.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

SANDERS: I will say, listeners, even if you miss the finals, just go start Googling "Eurovision" videos. You've got to watch it. This stuff is wacky. Also, speaking of big cultural events, do not miss Glen Weldon's recap for npr.org of the "Game Of Thrones" finale. He'll also be on a Pop Culture Happy Hour episode all about that show finale, as well.

Bigger question from all of this - do we think the monoculture is going away? And by monoculture, I mean, cultural events or things or trends that basically all of us consume together.

JOHNSON: Right.

ENWEMEKA: Oh.

JOHNSON: This is a great question. I saw this piece on, I think, The Ringer that was about how "Game Of Thrones" is, like, the last piece of monoculture.

SANDERS: But a lot of folks don't watch that show.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah. Is it?

JOHNSON: You don't say?

ENWEMEKA: I feel like there's so many communities around TV shows. I mean, I personally know so many people who are very upset to hear that, you know, there's going to be a one-year break for "Insecure." There's plenty of...

JOHNSON: Wait. There's going to a one-year...

ENWEMEKA: Yes. I know.

SANDERS: No.

JOHNSON: Oh.

SANDERS: But you know what?

ENWEMEKA: I mean, you know, Issa's too busy.

JOHNSON: 'Cause she's making movies.

ENWEMEKA: She's making movies.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

ENWEMEKA: She's doing a lot of good things.

SANDERS: That show, as great as it is, the viewership per episode is, like, less than a million people...

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: ...Which is fine. That gets you what you need. But it's not, you know, monocultural.

JOHNSON: Right.

SANDERS: Anyway, it's time for a break. When we come back, my favorite game - Who Said That. BRB.

(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")

SANDERS: You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, the show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sam Sanders, here this week with two guests - Ben Brock Johnson, host of the WBUR and Reddit podcast Endless Thread, and Zeninjor Enwemeka, reporter at WBUR covering biz and tech. Time for my favorite game - Who Said That.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ATLANTA")

KANDI BURRUSS: Who had been saying that?

PORSHA WILLIAMS: Who said that?

KENYA MOORE: Who said that?

SANDERS: Y'all know how it works at this point, I think. It's pretty straightforward. I share a quote from the week. You both have to guess who said it or get the story that I'm referring to or get a keyword. I'll probably give you a hint because I'm nice. The winner, of course, gets absolutely nothing.

JOHNSON: The fight was so bitter....

ENWEMEKA: The satisfaction.

JOHNSON: ...Because the stakes were so small.

SANDERS: That's it. That's it.

ENWEMEKA: (Laughter).

SANDERS: All right. First quote - ready? "It is fire. I am hyped."

JOHNSON: Oh.

SANDERS: This was an...

JOHNSON: That's a good quote.

SANDERS: ...An actor/musician...

JOHNSON: Oh, no.

SANDERS: ...Who's going to be on the big screen this spring very soon.

JOHNSON: Oh, my God.

ENWEMEKA: Actor/musician...

JOHNSON: Actor/musician.

ENWEMEKA: ...Big screen this spring.

JOHNSON: Oh, God.

SANDERS: It's a he.

JOHNSON: Right.

SANDERS: He raps, and he acts.

JOHNSON: I was going to say Kanye just because it seemed...

(SOUNDBITE OF BUZZER)

SANDERS: Not Kanye.

JOHNSON: No? OK.

SANDERS: But another rapper.

ENWEMEKA: Raps and acts.

SANDERS: Raps and acts - the original rapper-actor combo - come on, y'all.

JOHNSON: Will Smith.

SANDERS: Yes. Say it louder.

ENWEMEKA: Oh, Will Smith.

JOHNSON: Will Smith.

SANDERS: Will Smith - yes.

JOHNSON: I already got it wrong, so I figured I should wait.

ENWEMEKA: Oh.

SANDERS: It's OK.

JOHNSON: Sorry, Zeninjor. Sorry.

SANDERS: It's OK.

ENWEMEKA: It's cool.

SANDERS: So this week - so we all know that Will Smith is going to be in the live-action remake of "Aladdin."

ENWEMEKA: Yeah, he's the genie.

JOHNSON: He's the genie.

SANDERS: He's the genie.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SANDERS: And we just saw, a few months ago, him in all blue, which scared the heck out of me.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

SANDERS: But now they've released some audio and video of the film. And there's this clip of Will Smith as the genie singing the classic "Prince Ali." But everyone kind of hated it.

ENWEMEKA: Oh, no.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PRINCE ALI")

WILL SMITH: (Singing) Prince Ali - fabulous he - Ali Ababwa. Show some respect. Boy, genuflect down on one knee.

SANDERS: Who asked for it?

ENWEMEKA: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: I heard some auto-tune. I feel like I'm hearing some auto-tune, and I don't like it.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

ENWEMEKA: I'm like, waiting for him to say, welcome to Miami.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Here's my thing - and I've railed against this before on the show.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SANDERS: We don't need all the reboots and the remakes. Sometimes, the original is fine.

JOHNSON: This is proof that Hollywood is out of ideas.

SANDERS: Yes. And...

ENWEMEKA: This is what I'm saying. We got to get more people in there who have other stories to tell.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SANDERS: Come on.

JOHNSON: Yes, yes.

SANDERS: Ben, you whispered to that point.

JOHNSON: Yes.

SANDERS: But you have one point right now.

JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

ENWEMEKA: All right.

SANDERS: Next quote. You ready? "You're not children anymore. I didn't mind explaining photosynthesis to you when you were 12. But you're adults now. And this is an actual crisis. Got it?"

JOHNSON: Ooh, it's got to be about climate change.

SANDERS: It is. Who rails about...

ENWEMEKA: Oh.

SANDERS: ...Climate change right now?

JOHNSON: Is it...

SANDERS: One of the world's most famous scientists.

ENWEMEKA: Oh.

SANDERS: But not...

JOHNSON: Bill Nye.

SANDERS: Yes.

(SOUNDBITE OF VICTORY TUNE)

JOHNSON: Oh.

SANDERS: Oh.

ENWEMEKA: Oh, I'm doing so bad (laughter).

JOHNSON: It's OK.

SANDERS: That is...

JOHNSON: It's OK.

SANDERS: ...Bill Nye of "Bill Nye The Science Guy" fame going off recently.

JOHNSON: Also not a child anymore himself.

SANDERS: Not a child anymore.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah (laughter).

SANDERS: So he was on John Oliver's late-night show a few days ago. And he was talking about how mad he is about how dense us folks can sometimes be about climate change. We have the tape.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "LAST WEEK TONIGHT WITH JOHN OLIVER")

BILL NYE: What I'm saying is the planet's on [expletive] fire. There are a lot of things we could do to put it out. Are any of them free? No, of course not. Nothing's free, you idiots. Grow the [expletive] up. You're not children anymore. I didn't mind explaining photosynthesis to you when you were 12. But you're adults now. And this is an actual crisis. Got it? Safety glasses off [expletive].

SANDERS: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: Whoa.

SANDERS: Does this actually...

ENWEMEKA: I wasn't ready for that.

SANDERS: Yeah, nor was I. But also, bigger question, does this move the needle at all - Bill Nye yelling at folks?

JOHNSON: He's not wrong, though.

SANDERS: Yeah. He's not - has Bill Nye the Science Guy ever been wrong?

JOHNSON: Probably not (laughter).

SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah. Anywho, third quote. You ready? Guess the business that said this. I'm giving you a hint already. The quote is, "so pack your swimsuit, mark your calendars and start the countdown because the Bell is about to make all of your taco dreams come true."

JOHNSON: (Laughter).

SANDERS: Who said that?

ZENINJOR ENWEMEKA AND BEN BROCK JOHNSON: Taco Bell.

(SOUNDBITE OF VICTORY TUNE)

ENWEMEKA AND JOHNSON: (Laughter).

SANDERS: All right. You both get that point.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: So there's going to be a new Taco Bell pop-up hotel and resort in Palm Springs, Calif. It's opening this summer for just a few days.

JOHNSON: I would go to that.

SANDERS: Why?

JOHNSON: Here's the thing.

ENWEMEKA: (Laughter).

JOHNSON: I like Palm Springs.

SANDERS: Yeah. So do I.

JOHNSON: And also, I haven't been in a swimming pool yet because it's been raining for 8 years, it feels like.

SANDERS: Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah.

JOHNSON: At least here in Massachusetts.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

JOHNSON: So if you put me on a plane right now to go to Palm Springs' Taco Bell resort, I would go.

SANDERS: Oh, my God.

ENWEMEKA: I don't know. I just feel like if I'm going to California, I'm going somewhere else to eat tacos.

SANDERS: (Laughter).

ENWEMEKA: No shade.

JOHNSON: Totally fair. Totally fair.

SANDERS: So they haven't released photos of the resort. But there are images of what I guess are going to be the pool floaties they use, which...

JOHNSON: Oh, no.

SANDERS: ...Look like they're hot sauce packets.

ENWEMEKA: Wow.

JOHNSON: Oh, no.

ENWEMEKA: That's clever (laughter).

JOHNSON: That's not bad.

ENWEMEKA: (Laughter).

SANDERS: That concludes the game. You did really well, Zeninjor. But...

ENWEMEKA: Thanks.

SANDERS: ...Ben won.

ENWEMEKA: All right. It's cool. It's fine.

JOHNSON: We can share the trophy.

ENWEMEKA: It's fine.

JOHNSON: We'll share.

ENWEMEKA: It's fine.

JOHNSON: You can...

ENWEMEKA: It's fine. It's fine.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: Congratulations to you both for being excellent sports.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

SANDERS: That concludes Who Said That. All right. Now it's time to end the show as we always do. Every Friday, we ask our listeners to share with us the best thing that happened to them all week. We encourage folks to brag. They do. Brent, hit the tape.

TAYLOR: Hey, Sam.

SONYA: It's Sonya (ph)...

TAYLOR: ...And Taylor (ph).

SONYA: And the best thing to happen to us this week is happening right now as we sit next to a river on our very first camping trip of the year.

TAYLOR: Thanks.

KELLY: Hi, Sam. This is Kelly (ph) in Washington, D.C. The best thing that happened to me this week is about to happen.

JOHN: I'm finally graduating from college. I'm getting my bachelor's degree.

TYLER: I am finally graduating with my bachelor's degree.

RACHEL: I'm graduating with my master's degree on Saturday.

SUSAN: My master's of Public Administration.

TIFFANY: My MSW.

MOLLY: I finally graduated law school.

EMMA: I successfully defended my dissertation.

KELLY: And I'm just really looking forward to being done and having some free time back.

FLORIN: Yeah. Sam Sanders, this is Florin (ph). The best thing that happened to me all week long is moving to Seattle, Wash.

HEATHER: Hey, Sam. It's Heather (ph). I recently moved in with my boyfriend to the same town where I teach high school. The best thing that happened to me this week was when my student and her mother brought me a homemade apple pie to welcome me to the neighborhood.

JACKIE: Hi, Sam. This is Jackie (ph) from Louisville, Ky. I'm calling to tell you that my best part of my week is that I just walked out of my final day of student teaching to become a school librarian. I've also been working on the nights and the weekends, so I haven't seen my kids much. And now I get to. And just to be super cliche, we're going to Disney World together next week. So thanks, Sam. Thanks for all you do.

HEATHER: Thanks.

JOHN: Congratulations to all the other graduates of 2019, and do awesome things in the world.

SANDERS: Shoutout to librarians in Disney World.

ENWEMEKA: Aww.

JOHNSON: Everywhere - librarians everywhere.

SANDERS: Beautiful thing. Oh, my God. Congrats to everyone that we just heard from - Sonya and Taylor, Kelly, John (ph), Tyler (ph), Rachel (ph), Susan (ph), Tiffany (ph), Molly (ph) and Emma (ph) and all the other graduates. Thanks to Florin and Heather. And, Jackie, thank you for the work that you do. Librarians, we need y'all all the time. Appreciate you.

ENWEMEKA: That was so sweet.

SANDERS: What was the best part of y'all's week? Getting those...

JOHNSON: Finishing this episode that I got done yesterday, just barely.

SANDERS: Uh-oh.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

SANDERS: It's done now.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah. Being here with you guys.

SANDERS: Aww.

ENWEMEKA: This was fun.

JOHNSON: Aww.

SANDERS: Really fun.

JOHNSON: Oh, man.

SANDERS: This was really fun.

ENWEMEKA: Yeah.

SANDERS: I got to spend a few days in New York before I came up to Boston. But while I was in New York on that Saturday last weekend, it was a perfectly sunny, beautiful day. And I went to Central Park and napped in Central Park. I did that thing that you do in New York.

JOHNSON: That's beautiful.

SANDERS: And it was...

ENWEMEKA: Wow.

SANDERS: ...Golden. I really loved it.

JOHNSON: That's beautiful.

SANDERS: All the good things. All the good things. All right. That's it for the show. We're going to go out on the wonderful sounds of the eternal Mick Jagger, playing his song "Start Me Up" to celebrate him recovering from a heart valve surgery and going back on tour. Wow. Good for him.

This week, the show was produced by Brent Baughman and Anjuli Sastry. Our director of programming is Steve Nelson. Our fearless editors are Jordana Hochman and Alex McCall. Our big boss, NPR's senior VP of programming, is Anya Grundmann. Many thanks to the folks in Boston for their help today - Glenn Alexander, Paul Vaitkus and the rest of the staff here at WBUR for all of their help. And so much thanks and love to the WBUR because I got my start here in public radio 10 years ago. All right, listeners. Till next time. Thank you for listening. I'm Sam Sanders. Talk soon.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "START ME UP")

THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) Never stop. Never stop. You make a grown man cry. You make a grown man cry. You make a grown man cry.

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