Actress Regina King On Living In The Spotlight And Having Difficult Conversations
SAM SANDERS, HOST:
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(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: Hey, y'all. From NPR, I'm Sam Sanders, IT'S BEEN A MINUTE. This week on the show - actress Regina King. She has been in the biz since she was 13 - way back in the day. You may remember her role as Brenda Jenkins on the classic NBC sitcom "227."
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "227")
UNIDENTIFIED SINGERS: (Singing) No place like home.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) What's your homework?
REGINA KING: (As Brenda Jenkins) I have to write a composition for English class - my most interesting ancestor.
SANDERS: After that, Regina King just kept on working - John Singleton movies like "Boyz N The Hood" and "Poetic Justice," other movies like "Ray," consistent TV work, voiceovers in shows like "The Boondocks." Regina King stayed busy and kept making good stuff. Well, decades into her career now, the industry is finally giving her the accolades many folks think she should have had all along. Regina King won two Emmys for her work on the ABC drama "American Crime" in 2015 and 2016. And this year, she won an Oscar for her performance in the Barry Jenkins film "If Beale Street Could Talk."
She is out this month with a new show on HBO called "Watchmen." It's inspired by the graphic novel of the same name. The show deals with issues of race and policing - a lot of things that we're dealing with right now in America. But "Watchmen" on HBO does this thing where it flips traditional notions of race and class and policing on its head to make its point. We talk about that show and why Regina King gravitates towards work that is consistently dealing with racial bias. All right. We start this conversation at NPR West together with Regina King a bit distracted by her phone. You'll hear what I mean in a bit. Also, listeners, there's some foul language that we've bleeped in the first part of this conversation. OK. Here it is. Enjoy.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
KING: All right, Sam.
SANDERS: All right.
KING: Off this daggone (ph) energy zapper.
SANDERS: You know. What's your phone etiquette like? Because my rule now is I don't do push notifications for anything.
KING: Oh. I've never really done push notifications.
SANDERS: Good, good.
KING: Well, no, no. I take that back. I realized push notifications were - because, like, when you get your phone, I guess it's kind of programmed to automatically do that. Yeah. So my [expletive] was dinging all the time and, like, I really couldn't...
SANDERS: (Laughter) It's too much.
KING: I mean, it's, like, dinging for things, like, Pinterest.
SANDERS: Exactly. And you're like, what?
KING: I'm like, what the hell?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: So they're all off, and they've been all off for years.
SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah. You have to do it that way. I mean, it's just, like, it'll suck you in. It feels like, one, these things have shortened our attention spans.
KING: One hundred percent.
SANDERS: But, two, there's just so much random stuff on the Internet to get sucked into.
KING: To get sucked in. I'm really trying to be better at looking at social media, you know, looking at your feed and not having a visceral reaction to something.
SANDERS: (Laughter) Teach me your ways.
KING: I've not mastered it yet because they've managed to pop in, like, tweets or something or Instagram posts from things - people you don't follow.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah, and things you should not care about.
KING: You should not care about or that I get in my feelings, like, why is there [expletive] National Pancake Day? Like, I...
SANDERS: (Laughter) Why are we doing this?
KING: Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this?
SANDERS: Oh, yeah. But then you've also Googled National Pancake Day.
KING: Pancake day - yes.
SANDERS: And you're like, well, what's the most popular pancake? I want to know. Who invented pancakes? Where'd they come from?
KING: And then on the flip side, I understand National Tequila Day. So what does that say about me?
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Exactly, yeah. Yes, yes. I mean, thinking big picture about that, this Internet media landscape, is it harder as someone who makes TV or movies to get the attention you want these days? Because when you're making "227" back in the day, you're one of a handful of networks. They got you in a good time slot. You are watched.
KING: Yes, yes.
SANDERS: And now you are not just putting TV on the TV, you're putting TV into that Internet world, full of distraction. And you are trying to be someone's International Pancake Day (laughter).
KING: Exactly. I'm trying to be the No. 1 trending thing, yes.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.
KING: Yeah, it is difficult.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And it's difficult to be OK in my spirit about that. You know, that's the thing that I find myself - you know, that's the tug within me. Like, I feel like, yes, I need to understand that we are in a different day and age, that this is the time where social media is what you use to promote...
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.
KING: ...A project or a cause or whatever.
But the reality is, I'm not really consistent. And what I do notice is, you know, you have to be on there...
SANDERS: Feeding that beast.
KING: ...Consistently feeding it so that you can break through National Pancake Day and everything else, you know?
SANDERS: Yeah. But also, it's like you are an actress, first. And I'm guessing you want to spend more time on the craft than...
KING: Than - yeah. But I got to tell you, I'm so impressed with those artists that are able to be on there, like, all the time and posting every single day several times a day and manage to be really great at their craft.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: I don't think I'll ever be good at that.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KING: And what I will say is I'm OK with that.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: I have gotten to that place that I'm OK with that.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah. But you know what you do have?
KING: Yeah?
SANDERS: An Oscar (laughter).
KING: I know. That part, right?
SANDERS: That part.
KING: Right.
SANDERS: I mean, so, like, there is also this kind of thing where, like, it is interesting to see you in this moment making the stuff that you're making because as someone who's been a fan and been watching you for a while, it feels like something in the last two, three, four years, you are functioning and your career is functioning, like, on all cylinders. Does it feel...
KING: It does.
SANDERS: Watching you, it feels that way.
KING: No, it does feel that way.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: And I feel like there's a lot of experiences have taken place to lead to this moment...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...As with anyone's life.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: But I think I've been very good at learning from my mistakes...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...You know, not repeating them, growing from my mistakes...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...Or just circumstances that have taken place.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.
KING: And I do feel like I move with more confidence now, you know, and especially in the past...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...You know, seven, eight years.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: I think being a mother had a lot to do with getting me to that space without actually thinking about it, without consciously...
SANDERS: Explain. Explain.
KING: Because I have another life that I'm responsible for.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KING: And that's, like, the No. 1 priority and the reality of - because I'm - my son is an only child.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: So the reality that not only is he an only child, I'm an only mom, you know?
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.
KING: So I'm learning it just as he. We're growing together. And growing together and learning through his eyes allowed me to think in a more selfless way or...
SANDERS: And also, you know, you have less time to get caught up with the petty.
KING: The - with - yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Exactly.
SANDERS: In thinking of, like, gaining that confidence, being a little better just being you in this world and in your craft, it almost feels like you would not have been ready for a role like the "Watchmen" a few years ago.
KING: I wouldn't have been ready for a lot of things.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: You know, like a lot of people ask me - first of all, I believe that - I love the saying that we make plans and God laughs.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: You know, that there's - it does not get more true than that.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KING: And...
SANDERS: God is a Netflix comedy special (laughter).
KING: Wow. I'm telling you...
SANDERS: (Laughter) Like, just...
KING: ...Yes. And thank God, you can look at it.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KING: Thank you, God. Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.
KING: You know, I'll have people ask me, you know, do you feel like you were - you should have been recognized here, should have been recognized there. And when I think about that, I think about, would I have - let's just take the Oscar, for instance.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Would I have received it the way I received it now? Like, now, it's - I think if this may have happened years ago, I probably would have received it like, OK. I've done it all now. You know, now what?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Whereas now I know that is so not even kind of close to the tip of the iceberg. While it is a wonderful feather in your cap, it's seeing it as, OK, this is great currency to...
SANDERS: For the next.
KING: For the next, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, for me, that was happening while I was shooting "Watchmen."
SANDERS: Oh, really?
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: So you were still working in the midst of all of it.
KING: Yeah. So I was prepared at this time of my life to be able to be doing...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...All of that. And...
SANDERS: At once.
KING: At once.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Yeah, which I don't know that if that would have not...
SANDERS: Would've - yeah.
KING: It wouldn't have been the case...
SANDERS: Earlier.
KING: ...Earlier on, no.
SANDERS: What gives you that core emotionally?
KING: My...
SANDERS: Is it Jesus? What is it?
KING: Jesus. Praise Jesus.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KING: Yes. It is my spiritual base...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...My foundation. And that came from my mother.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: You know, that's - I mean, it's really as simple as that. Just when you are in the womb and you have - just everything surrounding you is spiritually in tune...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...You know? And that's...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...You know, my mother, my grandmother...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...My - it's...
SANDERS: It was just in the DNA almost.
KING: It's in the DNA. Yeah. Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah, because I'm guessing you float around an industry full of people that don't have that inner peace and that are just whirling dervishes of nervousness. And I suppose that can be frustrating. I've interviewed a lot of folks where they're not at peace, and I can tell.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: And I can see it. And I can hear it. And I can feel it.
KING: Right.
SANDERS: And I'm just like, you're very talented and very engaging. But...
KING: Yeah, but bless your heart.
SANDERS: I wish you peace.
KING: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah, bless your heart. Bless your heart.
KING: But I feel like I encounter that in life, period.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: You know what I mean?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Just not in this industry. Like, even, like, as simply - something as simple as - you know, you can feel that energy...
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KING: ...Like, when you're in the grocery store.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KING: You know, somebody in line...
SANDERS: They're like, why you picking that basket like that?
KING: Yeah. You're like, oh, oh. OK.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KING: I'm happy I'm not you.
SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah.
KING: (Laughter) You know?
SANDERS: Yeah. Let me get out this Trader Joe's. Yeah.
KING: Yeah. Let me get out of this TJ's right quick.
SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah.
KING: Yeah. So I think I'm cognizant to...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...That energy when it's around me. And I'm also very in tune to when the opposite...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...Is around me. When that - good vibes around you - you know how, like, you fall into that conversation with somebody? And...
SANDERS: You're like, oh, my God. I like you.
KING: Yes. And you never see that person again.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: But you walk away from that moment with a smile.
SANDERS: You were blessed. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
KING: Yeah. Yeah. I call them gift days...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...Gift moments. Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah. I like that.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: When we come back, Regina King tells me more about her new HBO show "Watchmen" and what it means to come to the table for difficult conversations about race. BRB.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: So the show "Watchmen" - give me your elevator pitch in 30 seconds. And then I'll come in with mine (laughter).
KING: First of all, this is an elevator pitch if you're on a local elevator in the Empire State Building. So...
(LAUGHTER)
KING: That's a...
SANDERS: (Unintelligible).
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Yeah. Yeah.
SANDERS: OK. OK.
KING: So it is a show that comes from source material...
SANDERS: The comic books.
KING: ...The comic books. It uses the source material as if it's the Bible.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: It is the Bible of this alternate universe.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: And in this alternate universe, we have picked up - for those who are fans of the book, we've picked up 30 years from when that book ended.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: And we are - like, that book dealt with the threat of Cold War. In this story, our biggest fear is racism and policing.
SANDERS: Sounds like my life (laughter).
KING: Yes, you know?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And, I mean, I thought that was so smart for Damon to choose that...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...As that backdrop...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...That imminent fear. Also, the show is, like, a gumbo of genres.
SANDERS: OK. Yeah.
KING: So you have sci-fi. You have romance. You have humor.
SANDERS: Uh-Huh.
KING: You have real historical events that will be...
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KING: ...Happening...
SANDERS: "The Open" is the Tulsa race riot.
KING: Yes.
SANDERS: So you're giving history, too.
KING: Yes, and that's one of the things that I thought when I first read the script. I was like, oh, my God.
SANDERS: (Laughter) Your character in this show, I want to describe it accurately. You - and there's layers to the character.
KING: It is.
SANDERS: It's like - so your character is a former police officer.
KING: I think we can say that she's a police officer, but she is operating undercover as a police officer because a certain series of events have taken place that has led the police department in Tulsa to police in a way that their identities are hidden.
SANDERS: So all these police officers are wearing masks...
KING: Yes.
SANDERS: ...On patrol...
KING: On patrol.
SANDERS: ...Which is weird to see already.
KING: Already.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And then the detectives - their uniform, if you will, is individual to - if - not one detectives...
SANDERS: Wears the same thing.
KING: ...Wears the same thing. So Angela Abar is who I play. To me, she kind of represents all of us in the way - I say that because in the first episode, you get to see three different masks.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.
KING: Yeah, you know, and that's kind of how we move in real life.
SANDERS: To the world.
KING: You know, who we are at the family reunion is different than who we are at home with the immediate family.
SANDERS: Yeah, than who we are at work...
KING: Than who we are at work.
SANDERS: ...With that boss who gets on our nerves, you know?
KING: Exactly.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: You know, so we're always constantly changing masks. And sometimes, we get confused on which one we should have on. Through Angela, we kind of explore all of that...
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KING: ...Through Angela through story.
SANDERS: So this show that is asking us to grapple with big questions about policing but in a way where everything's flipped on its head - the racial hierarchy seems to be flipped. The relationship between cops and civilians seems to be flipped. When you think about using a show like that to get at these big central questions of American life, does it work better or differently than a show that is, perhaps, more what we see every day? You've done other shows about race and policing that seem specifically of this moment and, like, scenes from our lives. This is a show with questions about policing and crime and race, but it is set in a world that feels very much not this one. How do you think about the way that those shows make us ask those questions or answer them when one is set in this world and one is not?
KING: Right. That's a great question because I'm just thinking about just myself as an audience member that I do feel like I receive things that are provocative or that makes me want to talk about them later when there's humor involved.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: So I guess this is very similar...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...In that way.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Like, for example, I saw "Slave Play."
SANDERS: OK.
KING: Ooh.
SANDERS: I need - I've had been hearing that.
KING: Oh, child.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KING: Man, but that's a perfect example of what, you know, I'm talking about, you know?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And similar to "Watchmen" in a way that, like, I don't - no one knows - they're going in not knowing what to expect.
SANDERS: Yes, yes.
KING: I don't want people to - I don't want to say, I hope that you feel this.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: I want you to walk out of there or come off your couch, take it in and just be honest about what you feel, you know? And...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And that's really...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...The best we can do as artists...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...You know, having the opportunity to contribute to a conversation...
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah.
KING: ...To force the viewer to be honest about what they're feeling.
SANDERS: Yes, yeah. A theme in your recent work that I've noticed - you deal with notions of the police state and crime and race and policing. I am guessing you taking roles over time that speak to that is not by accident.
KING: I don't think that they are - I - this is going to sound crazy, Sam. I don't feel like I'm actively looking for these stories. But I will say that if the story moves me - it moves me and feels like it's rooted in truth, even if it's a comedy, then I'm attracted to it.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: I will say because I have been on this Earth for 48 years and so much of that is part of my experience being black in America.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Subconsciously and consciously, I can't help but be attracted to it.
SANDERS: To be drawn to it.
KING: I can't help it, you know? So it's not that I'm out there, like, only send me these projects. It's like, you know, five or six things will hit my desk, and that'll just be the one that my heart says...
SANDERS: That's it.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah; well, and it also feels like we're in this moment where the real world cannot figure out race and policing. We can't figure it out. Politicians can't figure it out. Protesters (ph) can't figure it out. And, like, sometimes, it feels like the only way to actively work through this stuff is through the creative arts.
KING: Oh, 100%. And also, I think a big reason why you can't figure it out is because if you're trying to revise the past, if you're actively not trying to learn about the past or differences, then we're never going to get to a space where we have enough people that can be solution-based.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And I say that to say that it's not just only white people, you know, having a reckoning. It's black people understanding that this is the case.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: So how do we move in a way that's solution-based...
SANDERS: Solution-based.
KING: ...To help that reckoning come sooner, you know?
SANDERS: Yeah; well, I mean, like, it's a question between allowing yourself to be angry all the time or allowing yourself to be solution-based.
KING: Right.
SANDERS: And those - sometimes, that goes together. But oftentimes, it's two different things.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: And oftentimes, we have a lot to be angry about for good reason.
KING: 100%.
SANDERS: But how does my anger serve a solution?
KING: And that's the biggest thing right there. It's like when you come to the table with differences, the first thing you have to do is understand that we both have anger and pain.
SANDERS: Yes, and we both feel righteous in that anger and pain.
KING: In that anger and pain.
SANDERS: Yes.
KING: So how can we converse or - I keep using the word solution-based because we've been talking for a long time, so...
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
KING: You know, how do we get to a place where we have forward movement and not lateral movement without triggering the anger and the pain and making - and letting that speak for us?
SANDERS: Exactly.
KING: And when I say this, I'm saying it because I am working at it as well.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: You know, this is something that I think we're all working through. And I think for so many people, it's terrifying to consider coming to that table and being honest about how you feel.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: That's terrifying.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KING: No matter what you look like it is. And how can we do that with respect?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: That's the hardest part. It's hard because it's hard to sometimes want to respect someone that seems to be refusing who you are.
SANDERS: Yes, your personhood.
KING: Yeah. Yeah, you know?
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: In studio with actress Regina King - when we come back, she tells me why she is always proud to be an American, especially right now.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: When it comes to your work that deals with race and crime and policing and race relations in America, what do you hope folks that have followed your body of work on that subject take from seeing you in those roles over the last several years?
KING: This is going to sound cheesy, but I guess overall, I'm grateful to be American. You know, I mean, I truly am.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And because I am is the reason why, I guess, I'm gravitating to these stories.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And I hope that through - as difficult as it is that you can still find pride, even with all the ugliness...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...That comes with the history of America. You know, that's a - I kind of feel, like, in a lot of ways - not to pat myself on the back - but that's very brave to say that I'm proud to be an American...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...And especially right now.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: You know what I mean?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And part of me being proud is because I do recognize how ugly America can be and has been.
SANDERS: And still is in some ways.
KING: And still - yeah. But I'm also a person that finds the beauty in the bruises. I just feel like I can't love me and not be grateful for all that's brought...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...Me to be right here. So that sounds, like, really granola.
SANDERS: I get it. I get it.
KING: But it's - yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah. I mean, it's a part of loving America. And people will say this when they're protesting about things that America is doing. Part of loving your country is wanting it to be better.
KING: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Loving your child is loving your child.
SANDERS: Yes.
KING: Loving you parents or - you know...
SANDERS: Yeah, loving a child is not never saying to them, you did this thing wrong, or, you can do that better.
KING: Right.
SANDERS: Loving your child is saying, I want to help you be the best you can be.
KING: Yeah, and that wasn't...
SANDERS: By what you meant.
KING: Yeah, that wasn't...
SANDERS: Exactly.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: And so, like, you can do the same thing with your country. And it is - I think it's particularly vital to see those conversations happening in work like yours because in so many other spheres of public life, that candid work is just not happening. And...
KING: It feels noisy, right? It just feels noisy right now.
SANDERS: Yes.
KING: And, you know, that's - and, you know, when we were first talking and we were talking about anxiety...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...That comes up. I think the noise just makes you so anxious.
SANDERS: Yes, which is why it's - as weird as it sounds, it is refreshing to watch this dystopian show of yours (laughter) because it allows me freedom from that. And I can just focus on a story that is going to make me ask some bigger questions.
KING: Bigger questions, yeah.
SANDERS: You know?
KING: Yes, 100% because going back to talking about trying to ask questions and have a discussion and not lead with pain when - with a show like "Watchmen," I think it can - it takes some of that rawness out.
SANDERS: Yes. Yeah, it is an interesting time to see art about this hard stuff happen because I think, like, if it's not happening there, it's not happening anywhere else, unfortunately - anywhere else.
KING: Yeah, I agree. I agree.
SANDERS: Anyway, you're a director yourself.
KING: Yes.
SANDERS: How - I love that.
KING: I do, too.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: It's the kind of thing where you have built a career big enough now where you don't have to do that. You could do these movies, do these TV shows, get them checks and go home to your kid. It seems like asking to direct - and you do it a lot, a fair amount. You're asking for more work. What made you want to do it?
KING: Well, I've always - saying it out loud - wanted to direct because, one, I, early on in my career, had the opportunity to work with amazing directors and continue to now. And I've also worked with directors that realize what not to do. You know, like, I would say - I'll take it all the way back to "227."
SANDERS: OK.
KING: Back then on television shows, you'd have other directors that would come in, but you'd have your main director that would direct most of the shows. And we had an amazing director, Gerren Keith.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: Look him up. He just directed with such grace but strength. And, you know, when you're 13, 14 years old, things are making an impact on you and you, a lot of times, don't even realize that's happening.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KING: And I did not even reflect on the impact that Gerren had made on me until I started directing...
SANDERS: Really?
KING: ...As, you know, an adult. And - so I can take it all the way back to there, that Gerren, Cameron Crowe, John Singleton - like, all of these people along the way just left a little something with me. And just watching them work and - I love working with people. And when I began to understand just how much the director was doing outside of the time I'd be on set with the director....
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: I really got to learn that when - not until I was - at this point, I had made it an open statement that I want to direct...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...Which was terrifying in itself....
SANDERS: Really?
KING: ...Because I wanted - my concern was that people would think it was a vanity thing because at that time, a lot of actors were starting to do that.
SANDERS: They wanted the title, yeah.
KING: And then they would direct one thing and never direct again. But I really wanted to do it. So Christopher Chulack, who was a producer and our main director on "Southland," allowed me to start shadowing him.
SANDERS: Nice.
KING: And so when I saw how galvanizing it was, all the people that he works with...
SANDERS: Yeah, you're commanding the troops.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: It really made me go, oh, my gosh, yes.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: This is right up my alley.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And - yeah, so that just kind of started opening up there. And then my son is now a young adult...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: So I have more time.
SANDERS: Yeah, to do it.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: Yeah. One of the things I like about you and your approach to directing and producing - because you have your own...
KING: Production company.
SANDERS: ...As well. Yeah. You've said that you want to make sure that your projects have at least 50% women. That's ambitious.
KING: It is ambitious.
SANDERS: Has it been harder or easier to get to that than you thought it would be?
KING: Hard. Harder.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: Yeah. And I actually - you know, I knew that it was going to be hard. I led with, it's not going to be easy. I probably should have kept that to myself, didn't and then said...
REGINA KING AND SAM SANDERS: Look what I did.
KING: But, you know, here's the thing. The beautiful thing is more people are working now...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...Because we have so many different outlets.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: But it's harder to - so for - with one particular department, you know, I'm finding myself - we're finding our backs against the wall.
SANDERS: Really?
KING: And...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: It's the reality, you know?
SANDERS: Well, and it's this kind of vicious cycle because you need everyone to have enough experience to do it.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: But you know the ones that you want to get from marginalized backgrounds are the most likely to have the least experience because they were shut out systemically...
KING: Right.
SANDERS: ...For so long.
KING: So we're taking - there are a lot of positions that we're bringing people on that don't have the experience, but they do have the passion. They do have the background...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...As far as the education.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: You know?
SANDERS: And they'll learn.
KING: And they'll learn. Yeah.
SANDERS: They'll get on the set with you.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: You'll teach them.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: You know?
KING: And then that's what's also been wonderful in this process - is part of when you're meeting department heads and, you know, we ask - I ask the question, well, don't know if you saw the Golden Globes, but I said something that we need to know as a team that you subscribe to...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...And that you are going to do everything in your interest as you're building out your department to have it reflect that...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...That parity is...
SANDERS: Fifty percent or more.
KING: Yeah. And it's - everyone...
SANDERS: They all say yes?
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: OK. That's good.
KING: And I don't feel like they're just saying yes because they want the job.
SANDERS: OK. They believe in it.
KING: I feel like they genuinely...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...Want to see that as well. They want to be - we - everyone involved thus far wants to be part of the narrative that...
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KING: ...Cut to next year, we can say...
SANDERS: Parity.
KING: ...We did it.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: Better to be on that side...
KING: That side...
SANDERS: ...Of the conversation than the other.
KING: ...Than the other side. Exactly.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: So we hope that we'll have the opportunity to say that.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Yeah, in a few months.
SANDERS: Yeah. Officially how long have you been in the biz? You started "227" when you were - what? - 13?
KING: Thirteen. I shot the pilot at 13.
SANDERS: Wow.
KING: So as a - you know, I was going to acting school and doing plays and things like that prior to that. So I'll be 49...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...In January.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: And your birthday marks the last day...
KING AND SANDERS: ...Of that year.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: So...
SANDERS: So it's been...
KING: ...Yeah, 36 years.
SANDERS: ...Thirty-six years.
KING: Yeah.
SANDERS: When did you know that you wanted to do this?
KING: Probably in college, you know?
SANDERS: But you were doing it before college.
KING: I was doing it before, but I wanted to be a dentist.
SANDERS: Wait. What?
KING: I wanted to be - I know.
SANDERS: So who got you on "227" at 13?
KING: I was always a fan of the arts.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: You know, the thing, like, living in L.A. is while our - one of our biggest...
SANDERS: Exports.
KING: ...Exports...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...Is Hollywood. It's still not - as far as the - all of the arts. It's not like New York...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...In that sense that...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...It's, you know, just bubbling with, you know, all different types of art. But my mother being a teacher, whenever anything came to LA, you know...
SANDERS: We're going.
KING: ...She got - we are going.
SANDERS: OK.
KING: You know, when Eartha Kitt came in "Timbuktu!"...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...We were going.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: Alvin Ailey...
SANDERS: OK.
KING: ...In town, Dance Theater of Harlem in town - we were going.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: So, you know, she started that excitement very early on.
SANDERS: What of your work has she enjoyed the most?
KING: Oh, gosh. That would probably be a question that you have to ask her, but I think there is a certain amount of pride that probably came along with "Beale Street"...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...Because it was James Baldwin's work...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...And, again, being a teacher and...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...Just who James Baldwin is and what he means to us as Americans.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: And I say as Americans.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: I think it's very important...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KING: ...To say that. I think it holds a special place in her heart.
SANDERS: I love it. I was so looking forward to this conversation, and I was not disappointed. This was a delight and joy.
KING: Oh, thank you.
SANDERS: What I didn't tell you before we talked is my mother's name is Regina.
KING: She's a queen.
SANDERS: She's a queen. Literally...
KING: Wow.
SANDERS: ...It means queen.
KING: It does.
SANDERS: Oh, man. I'm so grateful for this.
KING: Wow.
SANDERS: Thank you so much.
KING: Thank you.
SANDERS: I appreciate it.
KING: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: Thanks again to actress Regina King. We're back in your feeds Friday with our weekly wrap of all the news and stuff. Until then, thank you for listening. Talk soon.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
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