LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST:
Padma Lakshmi, the host of the cooking competition "Top Chef," is on a new gastronomical journey taking her to places you've probably heard of, like Chinatown in San Francisco, and others you may have not, like Little Lima in New Jersey. The new show is called "Taste The Nation," and she does not shy away from the complicated history and politics that remind us who is really at the center of our favorite dishes here - Native Americans and immigrants.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "TASTE THE NATION")
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Cusco (ph) is all about Peruvians - restaurants, delis, a lot of grills outside. Like, what can I say? I mean, there's a lot of Peruvians out there - a lot.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: "Taste The Nation" is now out on Hulu, and Padma Lakshmi joins me now. Welcome.
PADMA LAKSHMI: Hi. Thank you. Nice to be here.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Great to have you. First, I want to say this is so lushly and beautifully shot, and it shows people communing together with food. And it made me so nostalgic for life pre-pandemic that we may have taken for granted.
LAKSHMI: I know. I filmed most of it last summer and fall and winter. But it seems like it was ages ago - just another lifetime ago. But I'm hoping it will provide some comfort because we can't travel, and so hopefully people can do that a little bit vicariously through the show.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. I mean, it definitely takes you there. Tell me about the inspiration for doing this.
LAKSHMI: You know, honestly, the inspiration was my work for immigration rights. I started working together with the American Civil Liberties Union just after the election, shortly after the Muslim ban and the family separation at the border started.
And I'm an immigrant. I came to America when I was 4 from India. And so this is obviously an issue that's very personal to me. So I wanted to find out about other immigrants, and I started getting deeper and deeper involved. And it seemed to me food would be a great way to get into these communities. You know, you can tell...
LAKSHMI: ...A lot about a community by how they eat. And so I wanted to set myself apart from a lot of different travel and food shows. You know, I wanted to reflect my point of view as a woman, as a person of color, as a mother, but also be about more than just the food. The food is really just the excuse to embed myself (laughter).
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, what was so clear to me in these stories that you tell in this series is that they are about food and culture but also about families. And some of these great chefs that you profile, these Michelin-starred chefs - you showed how what they eat at their grandmother's kitchen table made them reinvent the cuisine of their youth. But you were also just talking to people who were cooking food in other types of restaurants. And it was - it's a real mix.
LAKSHMI: I went everywhere they would let me in, basically. I mean, most of the professional food world is dominated by white men. But most of the food in our world is actually cooked by women, you know? And so there's a real disconnect between professional food and food at our tables, and I wanted to look at both. And even - as you say, even those big chefs, they learned from their mothers and their grandmothers. So I wanted to look at the origins of that.
You know, the reason I got into immigration rights is because I heard a lot of rhetoric about immigrants and a lot of negativity that really didn't square with how I grew up in my daily life, in my community, or how I viewed immigrants even now. And this is my rebuttal. You know, I wanted to show that immigrants are not people you should be threatened by. They're not dirty, nothing. And you know that because you order takeout from them all the time.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: What really stood out to me is the complex conversation that you are having with the people making the food who are grappling with their own place in the United States as either immigrants or the children of immigrants. And I'd like to ask you a little bit more about your own immigration story. As you mentioned, you came to the U.S. from India when you were 4 years old. I'm wondering what that looked like and felt to you. I mean, when you tried to sort of enter American society, what was that like?
LAKSHMI: My mother had come here when I was 2, and I was back in India being raised by my grandparents. And so when I came to New York City and landed in JFK alone - and I actually arrived on Halloween night. And so my mother, you know, took me back to her little apartment in the Upper East Side of New York. And she, you know, had a big platter of candy by the door. And I thought that she'd put that out in celebration of being reunited with me. And the door kept ringing.
LAKSHMI: And she would open the door, and I would see all these kids dressed up - what I perceived to be street performers in costume.
LAKSHMI: And they would hold out their bags. And my mother would take what I thought was my candy and put it into their bags. And I thought, what a wonderful tradition. What a wonderful country, where all you have to do is dress up and jump around a little, and an adult will give you candy, you know...
LAKSHMI: ...Whether they know you or not. But, you know, immigrants or children of immigrants always occupy this third space. I could never be American enough for my peers or just to blend in for auditions or jobs, you know, when I started my career. And I couldn't often be Indian enough when I went to see Indian family - you know, if I dressed too American or, you know, my skirt was too short or I didn't have a bindi on. So there is that discomfort, and there's a lot of code switching. And I don't think that ever went away until very recently.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I want to ask you - because you are in the food world, you know, it's gotten a lot of scrutiny recently because of issues of diversity and cultural appropriation. And recently, Adam Rapoport, editor-in-chief of Bon Appetit, stepped down after a picture of him resurfaced portraying an offensive Puerto Rican stereotype and other issues. What is your reaction to these recent incidents? Do you think this is a step in the right direction, that these things are now being scrutinized and that there are sort of consequences?
LAKSHMI: Yes. I think it just shows you the unbearable whiteness of our (laughter) culture. You know, I think it shows you how we who like to think of ourselves as not racists at all - but I think there is kind of an unconscious bias there that they can't help but have because they've grown up in this society - you know, just like people of color have. And that's a whole another issue, too - this kind of internalized self-loathing that's very subtle and insidious that, you know, you've almost accepted and resigned yourself and been...
GARCIA-NAVARRO: To being inferior, in a way.
LAKSHMI: To being inferior, to being owed less opportunity than others. And also, I think the most egregious thing that happened at Bon Appetit was the treatment - was the unfair treatment of their employees and the discrepancy in compensation. That needs to change. Plus, if you ask me just from a hard-nosed business point of view, ethnic food in this country is where the action is at. That is what makes American food dynamic and, frankly, even possible.
I think that these editors and publishers need to look at a whole swath of people who want to see themselves - including me, by the way - in magazines, in newspapers and want to see our food celebrated because the numbers indicate that there is good business to be had from us.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: One last question - you've been traveling for your food shows and tasting, you know, so many foods. And now, like the rest of us, you're cooking at home a lot, and we've been watching you do so on your Instagram.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: So what's the food that you have had over the course of these travels that you're really craving right now?
LAKSHMI: I love the kabobs at Shamshiri Grill in Westwood, Calif. I love anything from that Iranian restaurant. It's wonderful. If you're ever in Los Angeles, go to Shamshiri Grill. You know, I enjoyed the ceviche from Erik Ramirez right here in Brooklyn, which was a revelation to me.
And, you know, what I would say is I designed this show not for people who think like me, not people who are necessarily gung-ho about immigration policy but for people who are against it. This country is mighty because of its immigrant labor. It has been refreshed and renewed over generations culturally, economically because of the influx of different waves of immigration. And that's important to note.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Padma Lakshmi's new food show is called "Taste The Nation," and it's out now on Hulu. Thank you very much.
LAKSHMI: Thank you, Lulu. It was great to talk to you.
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