Makaya McCraven Talks 'Universal Beings E&F Sides' And The State Of Jazz The jazz drummer records live performances and then manipulates those recordings in creative ways. His new album pulls from the pool of recordings that shaped his 2018 work, Universal Beings.

Drummer Makaya McCraven, The 'Beat Scientist,' Talks About His New Album

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Makaya McCraven calls himself a beat scientist.


GREENE: Yeah, so it is no surprise that when you ask him about his childhood, you hear that he was pretty much surrounded by rhythm.

MAKAYA MCCRAVEN: Rehearsals at our house, banging on drums since I was able to hold a drumstick, sleeping in my dad's bass drum.

GREENE: Inside the bass drum?

MCCRAVEN: Yeah. There was no front head...

GREENE: That's amazing.

MCCRAVEN: ...And a little pillow in there. And you could just kind of go in and, like, lay down if you're small enough.

GREENE: I wish had that bass drum when I was a kid. Anyway, when we were talking, we could hear birds singing in the background on his mom's porch in the woods of western Massachusetts. He grew up there and also all over. He led this international life. Makaya was born in Paris to two artists. His dad an American drummer, his mom, a Hungarian singer. Giants of jazz were truly household names.

MCCRAVEN: Archie Shepp, Marion Brown, being around guys like Yusef Lateef. So, like, those are my memories - being at gigs, being at concerts, backstage at a venue, smoky places, stowed away. My kids get similar things these days.


GREENE: You're trying give them the same...

MCCRAVEN: Without all this indoor smoking in the clubs.


GREENE: So in 2018, Makaya McCraven released "Universal Beings," this widely acclaimed double album. Now a new documentary shows how he made it. And he has gone back through the old material from that record to put out another album, "Universal Beings E&F Sides."


GREENE: McCraven has this unique style where he makes improvised live recordings, and then he builds on them in the studio. This track, "Half Steppin," started as a live session in London.


MCCRAVEN: And I just took lots of bits and pieces from a particular kind of jam, so to speak, and then layered some drums. You know, I changed the pitch of stuff. And then I do some overdubbing as well. So it's kind of like a collage of what happened live in the moment in that space.


MCCRAVEN: Those are kind of techniques that I use to create symbiosis between the live experience and then recontextualizing that for the recorded realm, which I consider kind of like an alternate dimension in a way that the music can exist differently than it can in our natural physical world. And I think that's kind of a magical space of the recorded platform is that we can do so many things.

I mean, Les Paul was creating tape loops. The Beatles were doing all sorts of creative ways of mixing things down and playing stuff backwards. And what can we do now to create sounds that never existed in the natural world or repeat time?


MCCRAVEN: As a kid, I remember my dad liked action films. And, you know, he'd have his buddies over. And they'd watch a car chase. And the car blows up, and it rolls. And everybody would be like, whoa.

GREENE: Got to see that again (laughter).

MCCRAVEN: Turn it back, you know?


MCCRAVEN: What I am looking for are magical moments, particularly in the live space because there are these fleeting moments that happen live that sometimes, you know, you just want to hold onto.


GREENE: You clearly love the energy of live performances so much. Like, how do you balance making all of those changes, taking us into this alternate space without losing, like, the energy and what you love so much about what's live?

MCCRAVEN: I mean, you're going to lose it, some of it. It's like apples and oranges, you know what I mean?


MCCRAVEN: I don't think the recorded platform can replace the experience of live music. Some of my favorite moments in live music or in performance can be silence. Say, like, you're in a noisy club, and there's people talking. And something happens at the bandstand. And everybody starts paying attention.


MCCRAVEN: That in itself - just being together and sharing a moment - brings a level of intensity.


MCCRAVEN: It's palpable. It's real.

GREENE: And we're not experiencing it right now.

MCCRAVEN: We're not experiencing right now.

GREENE: Just listening to you describe this stuff, and it's like we're all missing those moments. Like, the isolation of the last few months is, like, so the opposite.

MCCRAVEN: Yeah. It's such a strange time to process anything, particularly anything of the past that reminds us of the world as it used to be not so long ago. I still wake up often, and I'm like, wait, really? This is what's going on in the world?


MCCRAVEN: Just these times are very intense in general, I think, you know. And whatever emotions you may be feeling now, whatever struggles you may be having now are amplified.

GREENE: You know, you call yourself a student of music first at the beginning of the documentary. And, you know, you've studied jazz throughout your life. As we said, you grew up around some pillars of jazz. How do you feel about jazz in this moment and where it's headed?

MCCRAVEN: Great, I guess? I mean, it's - that's a loaded - can be quite a loaded question. I mean, I don't even know how well I feel about the word jazz, though I still use it.

GREENE: What makes you uncomfortable with it?

MCCRAVEN: Well, you know, it has very racist roots - one. It's totally inadequate in describing the breadth of music that has come out under its umbrella. And many of its founding players of the genre also took issue with the word as something that was not defined by them and was used to commodify their work. Miles Davis didn't like to call it jazz. Duke Ellington didn't like to call it jazz. Mingus didn't want to call it jazz, you know. So I think of "jazz" - in quotes - as an aural tradition that you learn from playing and being around other people.

And like aural traditions, they evolve and they move. It's not a stagnant thing for preservation, you know. And there's like - with the aural traditions, there's, like, an actual physical touch. And that's where I feel fortunate to have been around a lot of elders. And, you know, I always think of that as, like, trying to get a touch of the music and the history in the past that I can take with me as I create music now from my vantage point.

GREENE: Makaya McCraven, this is - it's been so great talking to you.

MCCRAVEN: Thank you. Yeah, you, too.


GREENE: Makaya McCraven's album "Universal Beings E&F Sides" is out tomorrow.

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