FARAI CHIDEYA, host:
This is News & Notes. I'm Farai Chideya. Immigrants flee violence in South Africa. Gay men and women in Gambia face death threats. And against conventional wisdom, does Africa have an obesity problem? That's all in our Africa update and for more we've got Nicole Lee. She's the executive director of TransAfrica Forum. Hi, Nicole.
Ms. NICOLE LEE (Executive Director, TransAfrica Forum): Hi, Farai. Nice to be with you.
CHIDEYA: So, let's begin in South Africa. It's been nearly two weeks since it was reported that some native-born South Africans started attacking immigrants from other African nations.
Ms. LEE: Right, well, this is...
CHIDEYA: More than 50 people have been killed and upwards of 25,000 have been displaced. Attackers are accusing the immigrants of taking jobs and increasing South Africa's already high crime right.
President Thabo Mbeki recently condemned the attacks.
President THABO MBEKI (President, South Africa): We must acknowledge the events of the past two weeks as an absolute disgrace. The violence and criminality we have seen perpetrated by a few South Africans is opposed to everything that our freedom from apartheid represents.
CHIDEYA: How serious, Nicole, how serious is the situation right now?
Ms. LEE: Well, Farai, it's pretty serious and a bit unprecedented, although, the situation, if you will, it's like a pot that's about to boil over. Now, we're seeing it's actually boiling over.
I mean, there are a lot of issues that are facing both the poor in South Africa and those that are fleeing to South Africa. Certainly, the situation in Zimbabwe, the economic and political crisis there, has certainly resulted in millions fleeing to South Africa. There are at least four million Zimbabweans that are in South Africa right now, not to mention, of course, Mozambiquans and Nigerians and Somalians.
And I think the second, and what's most disturbing, is what this is showing us is, despite the promises of the end of apartheid, the government has just simply been unable, due to lack of resources, resolve the economic legacy that we see of apartheid.
People are still, in South Africa, living without clean water. They are still living in substandard housing. No electricity, they don't have access to health care. And so, all of these things have, unfortunately, created a situation where those in South Africa have turned on those who are also the most marginalized in their country, which are people that are fleeing persecution or violence in their own countries or just looking for a better way of life. And those are the immigrants that have been attacked.
CHIDEYA: There's several studies that have looked at what's sometimes called economic apartheid, where, although African-Americans - excuse me, Africans, who are black Africans, native to the region, in South Africa as well as people who were called colors and people who were Asian, now have full political rights. They have not always been able to make gains economically.
So, is the country going to do anything or what is it doing around these economic issues?
Ms. LEE: I think that these are the sorts of issues that the trade unions, COSATU, the Congress on South African Trade Unions, that the churches have been bringing up every since Democratic elections in '94. What they've talked about is, certainly, we have now political rights, and these are terribly important, and we fought for these, but we also fought for economic rights, and one of the things that people forget, especially in this country, is that apartheid was not just about political rights, it was about economic rights and economic prosperity and the ability to gain wealth.
And, unfortunately, due to a lot of factors, we are still seeing those in South Africa, both what would be considered coloreds and blacks, still living in very substandard conditions. And until the country is really able to address those, we are going to see this sort of violence in South Africa.
But it's something that certainly advocates on the ground have been pointing to for quite some time and so, hopefully the government will be able to move more quickly. The government has certainly done a lot. Have built housing, they've certainly done a lot in terms of health care or have attempted to do something in terms of health care, but more must be done. The need is just far greater than the capacity.
CHIDEYA: South Africa is a nation that is known on the continent for having some pretty liberal laws around gay rights and human rights. And, for example, marriage is legal for South African gays and lesbians. But that's not necessarily the case in every African nation.
And so, the president of Gambia threatened to cut off the head of any gay person in the country. Last week, at a political rally, the president said gay people had 24 hours to leave the country and promised, quote, "stricter laws than Iran" on homosexuality.
So, this country is also the host country for the African Commission on Human and People's Rights. Nicole, what's been the reaction both inside the country and from other African nations?
Ms. LEE: Well, you know, unfortunately, the reaction has not been as boisterous as you would have expected. Certainly, there are many countries on the continent of Africa that do have laws on the books that make it very difficult for gay and lesbian people to be open, to rally around each other for better rights, and even economically to benefit on the continent of Africa.
And so, although, certainly, the international treaties do recognize people have the right not to be discriminated against based upon sex, and some have looked at that and said, well, that means sexual orientation, as well, that has not necessarily trickled down into the laws that we see on the books in countries in Africa.
So, it's been unfortunate because this would be a real opportunity for countries like South Africa and other countries that do not have repressive policies against gays and lesbians to talk about the invisibility of gays and lesbians, to talk about the stigma in the hopes that community groups, churches, et cetera would feel more free to have these conversations in countries like Gambia.
CHIDEYA: Now, this is something that some people may not really know or even believe, but there is an issue of obesity on the continent of Africa. Now, in some countries, you are considered prosperous if you are heavier, and Mozambique has had to introduce a new fitness regimen for police officers to try to tackle a growing obesity problem.
In Namibia, obesity is causing people to get more type two diabetes, just like there is in the U.S., and the World Health Organization estimates a third of African women and a quarter of African men are overweight. And it's going to get higher in the coming years.
Now, there is an assumption when you see some of the pictures of people, for example, who were refugees that this is not something that would happen on the continent. What do you think we're really seeing here? Maybe differences in cultures?
Ms. LEE: Well, it's interesting because when we think about the food shortage, you know, in many ways there really isn't a shortage of food, even, internationally. It's just who has access to food and what types of food they have access to.
We see this in our own country where we have food, yet, much of the food that we eat under-nourishes us, and we see this on the continent of Africa as well. You, certainly, do have a situation where, culturally, in many countries the heavier you are, the more that you weigh, it's a sign of wealth and prosperity. So, if you have a wife that is more - has more weight on her, you are seen to be a prosperous man.
What we're seeing now is a few things. Certainly, as I stated before, wealth is in the hands of some on the continent and because weight is seen as a sign of wealth, people do tend to weigh more if they can.
But the other thing that we're seeing is how Western diets are influencing the way that people eat on the continent. So, just like you can have food, but be undernourished, there are so many non-foods that we find in our fast foods, like high fructose corn syrup, that we're seeing now on the continent of Africa in ways never before seen.
We now see that this is in the diets of African people and so, because there is a food shortage, a food crisis that we're seeing, does not necessarily mean that there would not be an obesity problem among those that can afford that type of food.
CHIDEYA: Well, Nicole, it's great to talk to you. Thanks so much.
Ms. LEE: Thank you.
CHIDEYA: Nicole Lee is the Executive Director of TransAfrica Forum. She was at our headquarters in Washington, D.C.
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