MIKE PESCA, host:
So, Toyota Motor Corp. plans to ship something like 180,000 Priuses - Prii (ph)?
RACHEL MARTIN, host:
Prii? No.
PESCA: Yeah. Yeah. To the U.S. this year. It still won't be enough to feed our hungry American demand. One million Priuses have been sold worldwide since they were first introduced in Japan in '97. More than half of that million have been sold in the U.S. Detroit's big three automakers aren't getting any love. Customers have turned their backs on pickups and SUVs.
GM recently announced that it would shut down four pickup and SUV plants and conduct a strategic review of the Hummer. I will now save GM some money and tell them the Hummers are too big. But just how bad is it for the U.S. fleet? Are the Japanese imports that much more fuel-efficient, or just better marketed? Ray Wert is the editor in chief of Jalopnik. He's in the studio. Hey, Ray.
Mr. RAY WERT (Editor in Chief, Jalopnik): Hey. How are you doing?
PESCA: Did the Detroit big three automakers just make big miscalculations when they started putting a lot of pickups and SUVs into production about a dozen years ago?
Mr. WERT: Well, I don't think necessarily they made the wrong choice when they started, but they definitely made the wrong choices over the past few years in not reducing their mix of sales from predominance given to the SUVs and the large pickups to, you know, something that might be a little bit more fuel-efficient.
PESCA: Was it that they didn't see that oil prices would be rising? Or they were just planning for the present?
Mr. WERT: I think it was more they were just planning for the present. I think that our financial system kind of engenders a quarter-by-quarter look at sales and at earnings and instead of a more long-term approach.
PESCA: Is that changing?
Mr. WERT: No.
PESCA: Well, not our financial system, but if you look at Detroit, are they, quote, unquote, "getting it," that they really have to innovate their way out of the internal-combustion mess that they're in?
Mr. WERT: Well, I think that there are some good moves in the right directions. I don't necessarily think that they've made all the right decisions yet. I mean, if it were me, I would have said, you know, we need to jettison. You know, if I were working at GM, I'd say, you know, we need to jettison Hummer. We need to take a look at whether or not we need to have GMC still exist. We need to cut down to one large SUV, one pickup truck, and you know, focus the rest of our R&D on small, fuel-efficient vehicles.
PESCA: Was Japan somehow smarter? Do they have a different corporate culture? Or is it just that their niche was always the smaller cars, it always was, and when that comes into favor, they're going to be, you know, winning right now?
Mr. WERT: Well, I think that their niche was definitely towards a smaller vehicle, but at the same time, I also think that, getting back to the financial systems, I think that the Japanese financial system is more conducive to long-term approaches. And there's definitely a cultural aspect that says, hey, look at this quarter and next quarter 100 years from now, rather than this quarter and next quarter of this year.
PESCA: So is it the case, this is definitely the perception, there are some facts here, like Consumer Reports tested a bunch of cars, and they found out the 15 most fuel-efficient cars were all Japanese. So is it the case that, in general, this is true - your Japanese car is going to be more fuel-efficient than your American car?
Mr. WERT: Well, keep in mind that those are the most fuel-efficient vehicles that they tested. For instance, I didn't notice any diesels that are on the list. I mean, diesels that are sold in Europe or small K-Cars that are sold in Japan, so I believe that there are vehicles out there that even the big three are creating in their European arms that aren't necessarily being sold here. But now General Motors is looking at selling those vehicles here, or Ford and Chrysler as well.
PESCA: So the big three aren't even selling their most fuel-efficient vehicles in the United States?
Mr. WERT: No, they're not.
PESCA: As gas prices are rising, is it just hard to ship them here? Is it they don't have the plants, I guess, configured to make them?
Mr. WERT: They're diesels.
PESCA: Oh, they're diesels. And I guess people are put off by the fact that the price on your gas station will tell you that diesel's the most expensive gas but in the long term, does it wind up being less expensive?
Mr. WERT: Oh. If you're looking at fuel-efficiency numbers in the 60 to 70 mile per gallon range on a diesel-electric hybrid, I mean, why wouldn't I want that? But the problem is that it's an infrastructure problem. There aren't enough diesel stations out there, and there's still a perception among American consumers that diesel smells.
PESCA: If you don't want to be one of these hyper-milers who, you know, gets your car off to a running start Fred Flintstone style, but you still want to drive the best fuel-efficient car, is the Prius the best choice or just the best-marketed choice?
Mr. WERT: I think it's the best-marketed choice. I think that it's an expensive vehicle, and for what you're getting, you can get a, you know, a used Geo Metro that'll get you 35 miles per gallon and you could pay under nine grand for that, as opposed to above 20 grand plus the sticker markup for a Prius.
PESCA: So in other words, Prius' is best market in terms of saving money, but in terms of emissions, carbon footprint, would it be the best fuel economy?
Mr. WERT: I mean, it's still got an internal combustion engine. I don't think - I mean, if you're driving a car, you're not driving an environmentally friendly product. I mean, you should - if you really want to be environmentally friendly, take a bus, ride a train, carpool.
PESCA: Absolutely. What about GM or any of the other big three? What are they doing in the field of hybrids and hybrid SUVs?
Mr. WERT: Well, I mean, in hybrid SUVs, I mean, they've got that market kind of cornered. They've really focused their energies on trying to lower - or increase the fuel economy of their largest vehicles as opposed to trying to create small vehicles that have a high fuel economy, but they're also working on things. I know GM's working on the Chevy Volt, which is going to be a gas-electric, plug-in hybrid that supposedly will be coming out in 2010 that if their numbers are correct are going to really blow the Prius' numbers out of the water. But Toyota's working on a plug-in Prius and supposedly that's going to blow the current Prius out of the water.
PESCA: But how will it work? Will all gas stations have to have sockets, so you could plug them in?
Mr. WERT: Supposedly, you're going to be able to plug it in at your home.
PESCA: And will it be a special apparatus? I mean, they'll have to be, like, a drive-in rate. Any plug you could plug it into?
Mr. WERT: They're saying a standard plug. Now that would be cool.
PESCA: Interesting. That would be cool. What about hydrogen and those kinds of cars? That would be cool. Is it coming?
Mr. WERT: It would be cool. GM and Honda are both working on a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, and both of them have trial runs going on in L.A. with about 100 to 150 units that are out there. And again, the problem is infrastructure. You need to have hydrogen-refueling stations. And right now, they're only in L.A., and a few in Detroit, and I think one or two in Jersey.
PESCA: So you could take a day trip if you know you're not going to be going that far from your, you know, base of operations.
Mr. WERT: Right. Right.
PESCA: It's not necessarily something that, you know, you could buy in Kansas and expect to get anywhere outside of Kansas.
Mr. WERT: Right. But you can get 80 miles per gallon with that.
PESCA: That's pretty amazing. You know, we were just talking outside before we came in and I asked you, knowing what we know now, would the Hummer even exist? And my question was would lawmakers allow it to be built? And you had a different take on that.
Mr. WERT: Well, it's my belief that, yeah, it wouldn't be a - it would be a bad idea for a car company to create a Hummer, but I think if they were, I think there would still be buyers for it. They would be extraordinarily inefficient and probably wasteful buyers, but there would be buyers for it, just in the same way that there's buyers for Bentleys and high-end luxury vehicles that get 15 miles per gallon.
PESCA: The conspicuous-consumption crab will always be there. Last question, Ray, what do you drive?
Mr. WERT: I drive - actually, I drive a Jeep.
PESCA: You drive a Jeep?
Mr. WERT: I drive a - I have a big, long-time off-roader.
MARTIN: I love the Jeep.
PESCA: The Jeep hypocrite, or...?
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. WERT: No, no, I've owned a number of Jeeps over the years.
PESCA: That's awesome. Ray Wert is the editor in chief of jalopinik.com, the blog that's obsessed with the cult of cars. Thanks for coming in, Ray.
Mr. WERT: Thank you.
MARTIN: Stay with us. TV news punditry surrounding the primary race between Clinton and Obama, promulgated predominately by white men. Does that matter? Discussion next. This is the Bryant Park Project from NPR News.
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