TONY COX, host:
This is News & Notes. I'm Tony Cox. Here's another listener favorite from 2008.
(Soundbite of NPR's News & Notes, July 18, 2008)
FARAI CHIDEYA, hots:
Dizzy Gillespie is considered to be the first musician to fuse jazz with Afro-Cuban and Latin rhythms.
(Soundbite of jazz music)
CHIDEYA: More than five decades later, Latin jazz is more popular than ever and the genre is constantly evolving. As we continue our month-long series on jazz, we bring you a look at Latin jazz. With us, Jose Rizo. He's the music director for the Southern California radio station KKJZ. He hosts the show "Jazz on the Latin Side." He's also the bandleader of the 15-piece big band, the Jazz on the Latin Side All Stars. We're also joined by bandleader and percussionist Poncho Sanchez. He's released more than 23 albums, including his latest, "Raise Your Hand." Welcome to you both.
Mr. JOSE RIZO (Music Director, KKJZ; Afro-Cuban Jazz Bandleader): Thank you.
Mr. PONCHO SANCHEZ (Afro-Cuban Jazz Bandleader; Grammy Award Winner): Thank you. How are you doing?
CHIDEYA: So, Jose, let me start with you. How did Latin jazz come to be?
Mr. RIZO: Well, it started back in the '40s - in the mid-'40s. And if there's a seed for Latin jazz, I would have to say it'd be Mario Bauza, because he brought in the jazz harmonies into Machito's Latin Band. And then later, he was also very close with Dizzy Gillespie, and he was more of a mentor for Dizzy. And when Dizzy saw what his mentor was doing with the Latin jazz stuff, Dizzy wanted something like that in his band as well.
CHIDEYA: I mean, we're going to get to a whole bunch of music, and I just want to say that we have so much music that we've queued up. I'm going to go in order of what we have, but it's still - we're not going to get to...
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. RIZO: No, there's no way.
CHIDEYA: We're not going to get hardly anything. Let's start with Tito Puente. Let's first take a listen.
(Soundbite of song "Oye Como Va")
Mr. TITO PUENTE: (Singing in Spanish) Oye como va, mi ritmo. Bueno pa' gozar, mulata. Oye como va, mi ritmo. Bueno pa' gozar, mulata...
CHIDEYA: Poncho, I think that most people will know that song, whether or not they know a lot about Tito Puente. I was so pleased to be able to see him at an arts festival. What's his significance in this genre?
Mr. SANCHEZ: Well, you know, Tito was a very good friend of mine. As a matter of fact, my son who's standing outside in the hallway there, his name is Tito. I named him after Tito Puente; that's how close I was with Tito. Tito was a guest with my band many times. I was guest with his band many times, and Tito plays a great role in the Latin music scene and also the Latin jazz scene.
The thing about this tune we just heard a clip of, a piece of, is "Oye Como Va." I remember when a friend came to my home when I was in high school, and they bought me the Santana recording of "Oye Como Va." And he said, there's a new song out called "Oye Como Va" by Carlos Santana, and he put on for me and I said, so, you think that's new, huh? And I took out one of my old records and I put the original Tito Puente and I said, that song was recorded 14 years before that.
(Laughing) He goes, oh, that guy copied Santana. I said, no, the other way around.
CHIDEYA: Oh, no.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: Go ahead.
Mr. SANCHEZ: Yes. And Tito, you know, he didn't like that version of "Oye Como Va." He told me the story, too. And then one day, he opened his mailbox and he got this check in the mail.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. RIZO: That's right.
Mr. SANCHEZ: He looked at it and Tito goes…
Mr. RIZO: Oh, I love it.
Mr. SANCHEZ: …this is my favorite version of "Oye Como Va" from Carlos Santana.
CHIDEYA: Yeah.
Mr. RIZO: That's right.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: Got to love those royalties. Poncho, tell me about some of the other artists who influenced your music early in your career.
Mr. SANCHEZ: Well, for me, start at the beginning with Dizzy Gillespie and Chano Pozo; Mario Bauza introduced them together, and Jose touched upon that. Of course, the great Mongo Santamaria, who I named my other son after; I have a son also named Mongo. And Mongo was a very good friend of mine and also was a guest many times with my band and vice versa. And Mongo's on one of my CDs entitled "Conga Blue" that we dedicated to Mongo; Mongo played with us on it. So, I would say the great Mongo Santamaria, conga drummer, and of course, the late, great Cal Tjader, who I spent seven and a half years with touring the world, and I won a Grammy with Cal Tjader in 1980.
CHIDEYA: Let's listen to a little bit of him.
(Soundbite of music of Cal Tjader)
CHIDEYA: Jose, when you choose what to play, how do you choose what to play, given the variety of what we've already heard?
Mr. RIZO: Well, when I first started doing radio on K-Jazz, it was almost 20 years ago and Latin jazz was still not something that people would pin down like, this is what Latin jazz is. So, I did a lot of searching, a lot of exploring, and I just kind of discovered this range that I kind of tap into, you know, from head-on jazz musicians. In fact, I discovered a lot of music that straight-ahead jazz musicians were doing that they didn't realize they were doing, as far as that could fit under the Latin jazz category - Sonny Rollins and Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis. So, I really got deep into what the great jazz musicians were already doing.
CHIDEYA: One of the things we talk about on our show is ethnicity - whether it's African ethnicity, the ethnicity of immigrants into the African-American culture, Latino ethnicity - and of course, there are people from so many parts of the world who may put themselves under the umbrella of Latino. Where do you think this music comes from in terms of the influences of region that end up in this?
Mr. RIZO: Well, in every region, the music is expressed in different ways, you know? And I think now it's beyond, really, cultures and ethnicity. I mean, the fact that Dizzy Gillespie was one of the creators of this music and Cal Tjader was one of the proponents that really influenced so many people into listening to Latin jazz, and none of them are Latino, you know?
Mr. SANCHEZ: That's right. Cal was Swedish descent, you know? And Jose is absolutely correct. Nowadays, there's so many different types of people that are involved in Latin jazz now. But one thing I'm very, very proud of is that Latin jazz is mine and yours. If you were born in United States of America, this is our music; this is American music. Latin jazz was born in New York City by the great Dizzy Gillespie, the great jazz trumpet player, and when he met the great Cuban conga drummer, dancer and composer, Chano Pozo, when they met in about 1945 or something like that, when they met, that's when Latin jazz came alive right here in the United States of America. So, I'm proud to say it's ours, you know?
Mr. RIZO: It's our music. And Dizzy Gillespie, you know, being so fond of Mario Bauza, his mentor, he would go see the Machito Orchestra...
Mr. SANCHEZ: That's right.
Mr. RIZO: And Dizzy would say, hey, Mario, can you give me one of those tom-tom players?
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. SANCHEZ: Yeah...
Mr. RIZO: He didn't know what to call them so he called him a tom-tom player because they have a tom-tom.
Mr. SANCHEZ: Instead of a conga drummer, you know? Tom-tom is like a drum.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: Right, right. Totally different.
Mr. RIZO: And Mario Bauza brought Chano Pozo, and that's when it started on the jazz end.
Mr. SANCHEZ: That's right, that's right.
CHIDEYA: Well, in case you are just joining us midway, this is NPR News & Notes. I'm Farai Chideya. This is part of our month-long series on jazz, and we're talking today about Latin jazz with Jose Rizo, music director for the Southern California radio station KKJZ; He also hosts their show Jazz on the Latin Side; plus, bandleader and percussionist Poncho Sanchez. And Poncho, you've got a CD, "Out Of Sight;" it's a tribute to one of your heroes, James Brown. Ray Charles and Billy Preston sing "One Mint Julep" on the CD. You put a Latin twist on the song. Let's take a listen.
(Soundbite of song "Saints and Sinners")
CHIDEYA: Well, this is actually - you know, always radio is an art form, and we actually played the wrong song.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: (Laughing) So, first of all, tell us what we're listening to.
Mr. SANCHEZ: That tune's called "Saints and Sinners," written by David Torres, my musical director in the band, and that's David playing organ and the piano in there, "Saints and Sinners." But it's cool; that's pretty close.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: At least it's yours.
Mr. SANCHEZ: Yeah, that's right.
Mr. RIZO: They were in the studio together.
Mr. SANCHEZ: Yeah, that's right. They were together. But "One Mint Julep" is a tune that, of course, was made very popular in the '60s by Ray Charles himself, and Ray's on here and the great Billy Preston on organ.
CHIDEYA: Well, you know what? We have the song now. Let's hear it.
(Soundbite of song "One Mint Julep")
CHIDEYA: So, what do you like about that song? And obviously, you know, you must like it. But specifically, what do you like about that song, its rhythms, et cetera?
Mr. SANCHEZ: Well, you know, that tune, when I was a kid, I would hear Ray Charles - I would hear it on the radio, on the record player. And I always loved that tune because it was very happy, you know. And it's got a good groove and Ray did it as a Cha-cha but I don't think he really knew he was doing it exactly like a Cha-cha-cha, you know? Because his was a little different. And I said, man, that lends itself perfectly to the Cha-cha-cha rhythm, you know. And of course, the Cha-cha-cha's a dance and a rhythm and so - and it's got the blues feel to it...
Mr. RIZO: All the elements.
Mr. SANCHEZ: And all that stuff togetheg. I mean, to me that is Latin jazz and that is our American music. And then Billy Preston, who they call the fifth Beatle, Billy came in to play the organ on that with us and then Ray overdubbed his voice in the center. You could hear Ray in the center here talking with us and he also recorded another song with us, "Mary Ann."
Mr. RIZO: And that's something that Poncho has brought to the world of Latin jazz, that R&B influence. Willie Bobo and Mongo did it a little bit back in the '60s and '70s and Poncho just took on a whole new personality in combining those elements. In fact, he even took the New Orleans sound, with the harmonica and all that and the singing, and brought Latin jazz - you know, kind of fused it with Latin jazz. So he's having a good time, you know, putting his own voice, his own stamp on Latin jazz.
CHIDEYA: It's clear that both of you are having a good time and Jose, a little bit later, we're going to hear some of your work. But you know, in addition to this being an American music, you've talked a little bit so far about how it's popular in Europe and, you know, I hope I get his name right - Sebastian "Shoonk"…
Mr. RIZO: "SHOON-kay."
CHIDEYA: Schunke. Let's hear a little bit of him.
(Soundbite of jazz music)
CHIDEYA: Now, what do you like about this music and what do you hear when you hear it?
Mr. RIZO: Well, Sebastian Schunke added also a classical element to Latin jazz and there's some parts where he goes off more into a classical direction. And it's more like orchestral and he puts a lot of elements, a lot of progressive jazz that's used in it. And a lot of European players and people in South America, they're listening to the Latin jazz from the U.S., but they're as well adding their own special elements of their region, of their culture and creating just something new, just the music evolving.
CHIDEYA: Poncho, when you look out in the audience - I'm sure you see a lot of different types of audiences, but what's your connection with the audience when you play?
Mr. SANCHEZ: Well, it's just the music itself that we play, the feel that you get from the music. You know, we just were in Europe. We were in Istanbul, Turkey. We were in Finland. And you know, we tour every couple of years to Europe and Japan and like that. And of course, a lot of people don't even understand what we're saying. You know, they don't speak English or they don't speak Spanish because we also sing salsa music in Spanish. But they feel the music and so that's what the connection is. And you know, it doesn't take but one or two songs and in a concert, people usually start dancing, they'll get in a corner, in the aisles and start dancing. So it's just the feel, the warmth of the music and the feel of the music.
CHIDEYA: You know, in doing this series, there's - we've talked a little bit about jazz radio and how jazz radio can sometimes be difficult to find for listeners. What's your sense of the state of jazz radio?
Mr. RIZO: Jazz radio for some reason always has had a very selective audience. It just always has been that way. And jazz stations have always just tried to just survive. There are no more commercial jazz stations. Those are gone, you know, they're dinosaurs. But now there are - jazz survived in public radio and now there are only less than a handful of full-time jazz stations in the whole country.
Mr. SANCHEZ: Yeah.
Mr. RIZO: And so that's why the few that are left are really supported very heavily by its members like here, K-Jazz here and WBGO in New York City - well in New Jersey and the New York area. So it's something - and then the interesting thing about us here on the West Coast, we're trying different things. We have now Latin jazz during drive time everyday, 5 to 7 p.m. on K-Jazz and that's one of the highest-rated programs on the jazz station. One of the few jazz stations left in the country, probably two - one of the two top in the whole country and people love listening to Latin jazz during drive time. So, you know, again, jazz radio is also evolving. Mr. RIZO: Right.
Mr. SANCHEZ: Their station there, KUVO, they were doing Latin jazz every third song but actually, I think they've changed that policy now. But it is a jazz station and Carlos Landau, our good friend there, runs the stations over there.
CHIDEYA: You know, one of the things that strikes us is that there's a question of jazz education. Do you think that there needs to be a little bit more of an outreach to people to educate them and if so, how do you that?
Mr. SANCHEZ: Well, for me. I've done - what I do when I play universities and colleges and schools all over the country - is they usually line up clinics that we do before we play the concert. So I've done many question and answer periods and clinics with my group. I also have a book, "How to Learn to Play the Basic Fundamentals of Latin Music," Poncho Sanchez's book and instructional DVD. So yeah, of course, and then there's a lot of stuff on the Internet nowadays, but very important to get more into the universities and the colleges of our music here.
CHIDEYA: I want to play a little bit of Sexto Sentido. It's a bit of your music, Jose.
Mr. RIZO: Yes, four young ladies from Cuba, more going in the direction of the band Take Six, four-way beautifully harmonic vocal group.
(Soundbite of music by Sexto Sentido)
CHIDEYA: So, why did you decide to work on something with this feel?
Mr. RIZO: Because there's jazz in it, there's jazz harmonies and I mean, it's like listening to Take Six, but it's in Spanish, you know? And I thought, it's good to expand jazz radio even further by introducing this to, you know, our jazz audience. And they've been responding pretty well and this group is very excited in Cuba, they found out we're playing their music. They even sent us an ID, you know, singing about the station and my radio program, "Jazz on the Latin Side." So, we're making connections.
CHIDEYA: Well, we have packed in an awful lot in a short amount of time. I want to thank you both so much for your time. Thanks, gentlemen.
Mr. RIZO: Thank you.
Mr. SANCHEZ: A pleasure.
CHIDEYA: We've been speaking with Grammy Award-winning percussionist and band leader Poncho Sanchez. His latest album is "Raise Your Hand," and Jose Rizo, music director for Southern California radio station KKJZ. He also hosts their show, "Jazz on the Latin Side." Both were with me at our NPR West studios. You can watch a video of this interview on our blog. Just go to nprnewsandviews.org and finally, we leave you with the song from Jose's band, Jazz on the Latin Side All Stars. The group's CD is called "Tambolero."
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