FARAI CHIDEYA, host:
From NPR News this is News & Notes. I'm Farai Chideya.
South African politics haven't been this volatile since the end of apartheid more than a decade ago. Nelson Mandela led the African National Congress or ANC from the time it was a revolutionary group fighting apartheid. He continued his leadership as an elected president. The ANC is still the nation's ruling party, but it could be close to splitting into two factions. Divisions within the ANC deepened last month when President Thabo Mbeki was ousted by party officials loyal to his rival Jacob Zuma. Several South African government leaders have resigned to show solidarity with Mbeki. The man in the hot seat? Jacob Zuma. He now leads the party and is expected to run for president. He's also been in the midst of a convoluted corruption trial. We asked Jacob Zuma where he sees the ANC heading.
Mr. JACOB ZUMA (Leader, African National Congress): Well as you know the ANC in South Africa determines the prodities(ph) and determines the direction and policies. Last December we had our national conference where in two very specific resolutions which were aimed at highlighting the key issues and to mention a few, the issue of education because we believe that education was identified as an instrument to oppress the majority, and if we are to complete the liberation we have take very concerted efforts to ensure that education is a critical and fundamental requirement and challenge. That, we've got to deal with. We also identified the issue of health care given the diseases that affect our people as an area that we are going to be focusing on and prioritizing. We also indentified the issue of rural development which goes a long way to address our poverty. Also we identified the issue of the crime in South Africa. That area is an issue of focus. We will be looking at the details of all of this.
CHIDEYA: South Africa is a driver of not only economies throughout Africa, but of trade around the world. And yet your nation is divided by the lines of class, by the lines of ethnicity, by the lines of race. What do you see as the number one priority for uniting people around a common political goal? People who don't even like each other?
Mr. ZUMA: Well, firstly, you should take into account that South Africa comes from a very divided racially kind of society wherein racism more than any other country was institutionalized, and we had to tackle this from the beginning and indeed establish a new nation which we call the rainbow nation. The important thing about it is that we did not say because there's been racism then we're not going to talk about it. We identified diversity in South Africa as important component for the unity of South Africa, that any different national group whether by color or by size is not less important than the other, that all national groups are equal. They should be equal in everything.
That is a platform from which we move, and let's say South Africa is in fact a multiracial society, but it is also important to bear in mind that the issue of race and ethnicity is not peculiar to South Africa. It's an international problem. In some places, it has caused wars and genocides and mass killings. But I think in South Africa we did not shy away from the fact that we are different national groups, and the current situation - I think people who raise the issue of race or ethnicity as a major problem of South Africa they are actually exaggerating the situation. The question then that challenges all of us, how do we deal with the policies in terms of economic development, in terms of the opportunities that you address that as the second most important area of uniting ethnicities and everybody else?
CHIDEYA: Let me ask you for a concrete example of something that you think has failed in terms of how South Africa has approached the economy post-apartheid and how you think it could be fixed?
Mr. ZUMA: What - I'm not sure whether I could identify that this specific things has failed. I'm sure critics standing out there could be in a better position to do so. What has come, I think, very clearly is that as we move forward there has been the widening of the gap in terms of the statistics between the rich and the poor. So this is what you discover as you implement your correct policy. So the challenge is how do we close the gap? How do we encourage the particular sides of the economy to move so that you could raise the standard and the opportunities of those who are disadvantaged?
CHIDEYA: Let me go to two specific issues that intersect with the economy. One of them is immigration. There have been waves of people fleeing Zimbabwe, for example, coming to South Africa, and there's also been a corresponding wave of anti-immigrant violence. So when you think about South Africa's need to be a leader in the region and to respect the needs of people who are in dire straits versus the needs of the people who are your own citizens, how do you make a specific choice in how to deal with people who have crossed your border illegally but who maybe malnourished and who may need help, versus the people who were already in your country?
Mr. ZUMA: Well, that is a challenge that faces many countries. If people are pushed by the situation from their countries, you cannot say go away. South Africa tended to adopt a policy that when people come to South Africa instead of creating refugee camps you actually allow them to integrate into society so that they are part of society in one form or the other. But I think what maybe we did not do is to ensure that we record everybody who comes very meticulously so that we know the numbers of the people who are in the country, those who have got skills and those who have not skills, and how to handle that issue. They're not just from Zimbabwe only. They are from many countries in the continent.
Of course in South Africa, as you said, there were some conflict that happened in the recent past, but what did we discover specifically? What has been called xenophobia. We actually discover the key at the center of all of this was in fact the question of criminality. Criminals who wanted to take advantage so that they could take the economic things that people are coming from outside where doing. That's what we discovered as a major factor. And therefore it means crime in the South Africa in a sense contributed to this and influenced this kind of situation because people in South Africa have never been xenophobic.
CHIDEYA: Let's move into the mix of domestic and international politics. Thabo Mbeki, the former president, with whom you had, I understand, a friendship and then a rivalry was someone who has been trying to negotiate a brokered co-government in Zimbabwe, a functional co-government between rivals there. Those talks seem to have fallen apart. What's your role, if any, in trying to make sure that this coalition government - fragile coalition government in Zimbabwe continues? Or because of your political issues with Thabo Mbeki is that just an area where you feel you can't operate your influence?
Mr. ZUMA: Firstly, Mbeki has been my comrade and friend all the time. He continues to be, and I am not certain that you could describe me and Mbeki as rivals, but of course, we will do what we've been doing all the time. We have been part of interacting with the Zimbabweans in addition to what former president Mbeki was doing. Talking to Zanu PF, talking to MDC, to say, let us find a solution encouraging everybody. I think we'll continue to do so to ensure that the situation is resolved in Zimbabwe, because the point that we will be making to our brothers and sisters in Zimbabwe is that the plight of the Zimbabwean people is too big a challenge. It is important that they put the interest of the country and the people of their country first, in order to resolve the issue. So that once they put that in mind, it should be easy to compromise on the difficulties that they have as they want to implement the agreement.
CHIDEYA: I have to ask you about something delicate that I know many people have asked you about which was an allegation of rape which was eventually tossed out, but you did admit to having sex with an HIV positive woman, without a condom. What have you learned from that experience, and what I mean by that is what have you learned from the outrage that came from many quarters, from AIDS activists in particular, ordinary citizens saying, how could a man we esteem so much be so bullheaded about this, because we've known for years that taking a shower will not help in any way with HIV? What have you learned from that experience?
Mr. ZUMA: I think the question of the shower has been exaggerated by the media. I think we dealt with that matter in South Africa very well, and there was a prosecution that was asking meticulous detailed questions, as to what happened for an example at this point, what happened in that point. So we had to explain every other thing. And the media picked this one up to say that I said if we take a shower then you cure AIDS, I never said so. And for that mistake I apologized publicly to the nation. And I'm sure we all say to err is human. There is nobody who is super in this world. I think, to me, once I realized, and I learned that I made a mistake and I apologized in the matter, and I think the South African people appreciated that, and that's why they have confidence in me.
CHIDEYA: Well, sir. I want to thank you so much for you time. We've certainly covered a lot of ground. Thank you.
Mr. ZUMA: Thank you very much to you and your listeners.
CHIDEYA: We've been speaking with Jacob Zuma, the leader of the ruling party in South Africa, the African National Congress, or ANC. Just ahead, our Africa Update contributor Emira Woods help us take a closer look at the state of the African National Congress. And how effective are candidates endorsements by news organizations?
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