FARAI CHIDEYA, host:
Now that we have got to our Bloggers' Roundtable, some of the hot topics folks are talking about online are fashion accessories. A little too big to put in a hand bag, but certainly not too big to carry one. We are talking about black people. Black people are this year's most fashionable holiday accessory. And should Jesse Jackson, Jr. bow out of contention for the Senate seat in Illinois?
With us today to discuss black folks reviled and uplifted, we've got self-described vigilante pundit Baratunde Thurston, he writes for Jack and Jill Politics under the pseudonym 'Jack Turner.' He also blogs for sites including The Huffington Post. Arlene Fenton runs the blog Black Women Vote. Her new blog is Black Women's Network. It's going to be up next month. And pop culture and urban living writer James Burnett of the Miami Herald has a blog called Burnettiquette. Hi, everybody.
Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack and Jill Politics, The Huffington Post): Hey, Farai.
Mr. JAMES BURNETT (Blogger, Burnettiquette): Hello.
Ms. ARLENE FENTON (Blogger, Black Women Vote, Black Women's Network): Hey, Farai.
CHIDEYA: So let's talk about black people as the bestest holiday accessory gawker, which I admit is one of my awful pleasures. A tipster inside a New York PR firm said the clients are demanding more, quote, "worthy black folks" be added to guest lists for their upscale holiday parties. Barack Obama's election makes black people just that much cooler, and they actually did go through a list of socialites and, you know, tastemakers like artist Kehinde Wiley that they thought would make good gift basket or gift list accessories.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: I mean - James, you've been blogging about this. What do you think?
Mr. BURNETT: You know, Farai, I was not sure how to react to this at first. My first reaction actually was, why am I not on one of these lists? And then when I saw that it was socialites, I pretty much understood that right away. But the most fascinating thing about this to me is the reaction from some of my readers. They immediately politicized this, and made this an issue of, you know, the election of a Democrat means that liberal elitists - in their words, in some of my readers' words - are going to come out of the closet and start embracing black people in a way that they've only pretended to in the past, which completely baffled me.
CHIDEYA: I mean, do you guys take this - Arlene, do you take it seriously, or do you take it as a snarky joke, or both?
Ms. FENTON: I'm not taking it seriously. I think I'd wait to see who's really showing up at these parties. I mean, these types of events have never been anything I've been interested in. But even if I was, I would be more offended if black people were kept out rather than being invited for the wrong reasons. Most of the times in those events, everyone is extremely shallow, anyway. Even the white people who were invited are invited for the wrong reasons. So I mean, why should we be any different when it comes to that?
CHIDEYA: Baratunde, is it the wrong reason, though? I mean, having lived in New York for many years, and being much more connected to how money moves in New York than I am in Los Angeles now, you can see - OK, you create a guest list that has these people. You publicized the guest list, then you get the paying customers to come. Like New Year's Eve parties are just the biggest rip-off, you know. You get one celebrity to scoot through and do a midnight toast. You pay them 250,000. Everybody else pays 100 bucks to the door. I mean, is it really silly to think of this kind of strategic guest listing?
Mr. THURSTON: Well, that's why I don't plan to be in New York for New Year's Eve.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. THURSTON: I think - you know, I think it shows a really outdated mode from the publicist community now that they're just catching on that black people are cool. Black people have been cool since we got here. And it's taken them a couple centuries to catch up on that fact. The one thing that really stood out to me, though, was this idea, this photo-op kind of idea that, oh, if we just have black faces, reminded me of Bush's reelection. When he had all these pictures on his website, they were all with him and black people that he's never really connected with as well before. And I just have a warning to those socialites, like that happened shortly after those photos is, we had Katrina come up and you kind of saw the real colors. So this whole fashion industry thing next year might be completely going, you'll find yourselves in a lot of outdated clothes.
CHIDEYA: All right. James, are you going to try to move up the ladder this year while black people have a open window into the world of high finance and fashion.
Mr. BURNETT: You know, it all depends on what sort of free food and drink are being offered at these parties. But no, seriously, you know...
CHIDEYA: If there are scramps, you're on.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: If there's no scramps, you're not showing up.
Mr. BURNETT: No scramps, then I'm not even going to consider it.
Mr. THURSTON: There is a problem with black people as physical objects and accessories, which, I don't know, just something in my genetic profile objects to that sort of objectification.
CHIDEYA: All right.
Mr. BURNETT: I do agree with that. It's a huge expansion on me I have a black there..
CHIDEYA: All right, guys. Well, this is a perfect place to take our first break. Because now that we know our worth, we can meditate about it over the break.
(Soundbite of laughter) ..TEXT: CHIDEYA: We're going to have more of you guys coming up next.
(Soundbite of music)
CHIDEYA: I'm Farai Chideya and this is News & Notes. We're back with our Bloggers' Roundtable. With us we've got Arlen Fenton, who runs the blog Black Women Vote, pop culture and urban living writer James Burnett of the Miami Herald, his blog is Burnettiquette, and self-described vigilante pundit Baratunde Thurston, he blogs for sites including The Huffington Post.
So I want to go ahead and talk about the Blagojevich-Obama seat, Jesse Jackson, Jr. situation. U.S. Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. has been put in the spotlight. He acknowledges that he is the so-called candidate number five, but that is counter to some reports that he did not offer cash or favors for the Senate seat. There's no evidence that he offered to grease Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich's palm in return for the seat, but there's a continuing probe into the allegations. And it's obviously taking a huge toll on everyone watching this. In a recent interview, CNN's Don Lemon said to Jackson outright, "Your name is being dragged through the mud." Jackson's response was emotional.
(Soundbite of CNN interview)
Representative JESSE JACKSON, Jr. (Democrat, Illinois): I've got a great name given to my great parents. And I've got a great father, who has a great legacy of public service. And I named my son Jesse. So I'm fighting now for my character, and I'm also fighting for my life. And I'm fighting for them, and I'm fighting for them, and I'm fighting for them. This is about my children being able to Google their name in five years, and there'll be nothing there associated with it that suggests anything wrong.
CHIDEYA: Baratunde, those mhmms are coming from his wife, who was also present at the interview. What do you - what comes up for you when you hear that?
Mr. THURSTON: Well, first of all, anyone is going to lose the Google battle. If he's ever picked his nose, that's going to be on YouTube somewhere. So he can't run on that sort of defense. I'm taken back to a moment at the DNC, where I saw Biz Markie performing, and he said, "If you don't want drama, vote Obama."
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. THURSTON: Unfortunately, the shenanigans of the Illinois governor have really added a layer of drama to the votes needed in the Senate, to the governance of that state and to an edge to the Obama administration as pushed by a lot of his conservative critics. You know, so far, Jackson, Jr., we've got evidence that he's actually been cooperating with the prosecutors on another, but somewhat related case. And there's nothing that seems to tie him directly, but it muddies the waters for an already sort of edge case for him to be able to be that senator in the first place. It's not pretty, and I hope he escapes All right. There's a lot of love for him, at least among our readers.
CHIDEYA: James, there's a totally different angle that someone brought up to me today that I'd never thought of before, is that some people might say, well, if he's cooperating with authorities, you know, who knows if he's an informant. You know, people get - there's 12 million layers of paranoia in this world. Probably, you know, two or three million are justified.
Mr. BURNETT: Right.
CHIDEYA: But still, some people have this other idea that you should never talk to the government, ever. You know, even if you're in the government. Do you think that's going to come up?
Mr. BURNETT: You know, it already has a little. You know, he made the distinction, I believe yesterday, that he had been an informer, but he was not a formal informant. So it's already obviously causing him a bit of nerves. And I can't say that I blamed him. The shame of it is, if I could make an analogy, it's like the school children who don't want to brag about being smart. The fact that he may have cooperated with the government, some people are going to hold that against him. So I don't blame him for being a little nervous about how that's parsed in the media.
CHIDEYA: Arlene, what should we take away from this as it pertains to the era we face ahead? You know, for example, this did not start - this investigation did not start in the age of Obama, but it is part of the dawning of the age of Obama. How much is there going to be a reckoning and an accounting for politics as usual during the first, you know, say, hundred days of this new presidency?
Ms. FENTON: I think we're going to see a lot of it, because people are in pain. We are in an economic crisis. We all want someone to blame. And I think that if there is a time to keep your nose clean, this is the time. Going back to Jesse Jackson, Jr., I think if he's innocent, he absolutely must defend his name. And I'm actually surprised that some people would call for him to kind of skulk off into the darkness. I think we need more people of integrity to be at the forefront. But if he - if there is any hint of impropriety, maybe he really should try to quite it down a bit. But I'm just not getting that feeling from him.
Mr. THURSTON: One of our comments is, on Jack and Jill Politics, a BTX proposal, which I think is the best solution. Which is the governor steps aside, somebody appoints the Iraqi shoe-throwing journalist to the Senate seat. He's clearly shown attention for, you know, standing up to President Bush, which I think is a qualification enough.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: All right. Well, speaking of journalist with beef, in this case, we're talking about bloggers, and sadly some who have found themselves behind bars. There is a recent report by the Committee to Protect Journalist that found that more bloggers are in jail today world wide than journalist from what people called the mainstream media. Majority of arrest were made in China, Cuba, Burma, Eritrea, Uzbekistan as the top five. And so we're not talking, by and large, about, you know, U.S. journalists who, we very often are protected compare to journalist around the world. But there is a sense that bloggers are taking risks by putting out information, and that is what journalist do, is put out information. Baratunde, does this show that blogging is both journalism, and also that it is something where we need a structure to champion people who are taking risks?
Mr. THURSTON: Yes and yes. And the idea that, you know, the way they categorize these journalists/bloggers/on line media proponents is increasingly less relevant. It's like calling someone a print journalist in 1820. At least that's the era we're approaching. What I found most disturbing as I looked through some of the layers of the report were the spike in arrests really happened after September 11th. And I think a lot of these governments around the world, the more repressive ones, were emboldened by America's own response, pushing rules aside, declaring an endless global war on terror, which kind of diminished the role of constitutions or rights, human rights of any sorts. So that was a bit troubling that, you know, another consequences and collateral damage of our effort to defend our freedoms was to in fact to clamp down on the freedom of the press, which is a core part of that around the world.
CHIDEYA: Do you ever think, Arlene, that we in the states who blog are not only less protected, but perhaps in some ways less serious about what we do? I mean, not that there aren't fun blogs everywhere, but that people have not reached the point where blogging is a high-risk occupation, the way investigative journalism can be. And should people take more risks?
Ms. FENTON: I definitely think they should take more risks. You know, there was a point in my - when I first began blogging where I had to decide whether or not I was going to give my real name, because many bloggers are able to hide behind a cloak of anonymity. And I think that is a great protection, but it also does begin to limit you in how many spheres that you can spread your message. So I think that the more bloggers who kind of come out from behind that computer and begin to speak out for those who can't speak for themselves, the more targeted they're going to be. I think - I've met quite a few bloggers in the last year, and they are very serious about what they do, I think every bit is a serious as what we consider a traditional journalist. And I really think that we're going to see a little more respect, for lack of a better word, in the U.S. of blogging.
CHIDEYA: All right. Well, we have to end it there. Always great to have the three of you with us. Thanks.
Mr. BURNETT: Oh, thank you.
Mr. THURSTON: Thank you so much.
Ms. FENTON: Thank you.
CHIDEYA: We've been speaking with Arlene Fenton from the blog Black Women Vote. Her new blog is called Black Women's Network, and it's going to up next month. She was at Audio Post Studios in Philadelphia. Baratunde Thurston blogs at the Huffington Post and Jack and Jill Politics. He was at our NPR New York studios. And pop culture and urban living writer James Burnett of the Miami Herald blogs at Burnettiquette. He was at member station WLRN in Miami. You can find links to their blogs and ours at nprnewsandnotes.org, and the conversation doesn't stop here. Our on line series Speak Your Mind gives you a chance to sound off on the issues you care about. To find out how, go to our blog, nprnewsandviews.org and click on Speak Your Mind.
Copyright © 2008 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.