FARAI CHIDEYA, host:
No publicity is bad publicity, that's what some folks say. And thus, the maker of the shoe thrown at President Bush is cashing in. And New York Governor David Paterson proposes an obesity tax on soft drinks. We've got these stories and more on today's Bloggers' Roundtable with Kimberly Coleman, who blogs at SistaGirlSpeaksUp.blogspot.com. She's also a political commentator for "Progressive Blend Radio," an online radio show. We've got Charles Robinson of Charles Black Politics Blog and Liza Sabater, publisher of the community blog, Culture Kitchen. Hi, guys.
Ms. LIZA SABATER (Blogger, Culture Kitchen): Hi.
Ms. KIMBERLY COLEMAN (Blogger, SistaGirlSpeaksUp.blogspot.com): Happy Holidays.
CHIDEYA: Happy Holidays. So Baydan Model 271, that's the model of the Turkish-made shoe thrown at President Bush in Iraq. And the shoemaker now says his company has gotten 300,000 orders for the pair of the flying shoe. On the other hand, the Iraqi journalist who hurled his shoes at President Bush could face a prison term if convicted. He's charged with aggression against a foreign head of state during an official visit. Liza, what do you make of the two strains of the story? One, you know...
Ms. SABATER: You know, it's funny, because people are saying - or newspapers are reporting that he's become a hero in the Middle East. And I think that he's become a hero worldwide. I just hope that the shoemaker, you know, puts away some money for his legal defense fund, because he really is going to need it. I mean, I heard today that he's suing the Iraqi security forces for them rough-handling and, you know, claiming - he's claiming that he's been tortured as well. So it's - I just think it's just brilliant. I mean, I am really - it's such a powerful way to end the year for us, because he has done what I feel that, you know, a hundred million Americans have not done, and it's just to really, really show the man their - how mad they are - how mad he is, so...
CHIDEYA: Charles, there's also the Iraqi prime minister. He's in a tough spot. There's been this outpouring of sympathy for the journalist. Many people are asking that he be freed. And if Nouri al-Maliki doesn't free the journalist, some people say he's going to be portrayed as an American puppet.
Ms. COLEMAN: Right.
CHIDEYA: What messages are going to send, Charles, either way? Charles? Let me go to you, Kimberly. So what message do you think it's going to send, either way, if Nouri al-Maliki responds harshly or not harshly?
Ms. COLEMAN: It's going to send a very strong message. If he does harshly, then it will seem like, as you said before, that he is a puppet. If he doesn't, then people are going to think that he was sympathetic to someone who threw a shoe at the president, which in my opinion was very disrespectful, and the gentleman who did it should be punished. So Al-Maliki, the prime minister, considering it is election year for him, is in between a rock and a hard place.
Ms. SABATER: But why punish him with a jail sentence? I mean, it is, in a way, an expression of his freedom of speech, if there is such a thing in Iraq, right? That's allegedly why the Americans went there to begin with. So…
Ms. COLEMAN: With freedom of speech - with freedom of speech comes responsibility. And to throw a shoe at a head of a state, regardless of if you like them or not, is disrespectful, and is the ultimate form…
Ms. SABATER: But fine him. Fine him and, you know, treat that as a misdemeanor, but not enough to have him tortured and imprisoned for years and years.
Ms. COLEMAN: I don't think that he should be tortured or put in prison for years and years. I think that the punishment should fit the crime.
CHIDEYA: All right.
Ms. COLEMAN: And throwing a shoe at the president of the United States is disrespectful.
CHIDEYA: OK. I'm going to step in here. I appreciate - I mean, you know that we love the difference of opinion. We just have so much to get to. And this is something that's much closer to home, and could really transform people's lives, potentially. I'm talking about the obesity tax proposal by New York Governor David Paterson. He wants to charge an 18 percent tax on non-diet sodas. It's going to apply to other sugary drinks containing less than 70 percent fruit juice. Now, he wrote in a commentary for CNN - the governor that is - that he hopes that the tax is going to curb childhood obesity.
Ms. SABATER: Oh, God.
CHIDEYA: And that soft drink consumption is one of the main culprits. Liza, was that your oh, God?
Ms. SABATER: Yes.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: All right. Explain it, explain it.
Ms. SABATER: You know, the Libertarian - I have like this libertarian gene in me, and I feel that it is a complete cop-out to say that it's the fault of, you know, of colas that we have an obesity problem in this country, especially among children, when, you know, the majority of public school children have no physical education hours whatsoever. I mean, they've been cut back so much that, you know, why don't we look at other ways in order to incentivise, you know, children to have the ability to move around and to play freely? Same with, you know, how about putting more money into parks, so that we have parks open more - you know, longer? You know, I am shocked that he has come out with this. I mean it is truly, truly - I don't want to use the word crass, but it's just not good public policy.
CHIDEYA: Well, Kimberly, let me toss this to you, and Liza, feel free to jump in. The price of cigarettes have increased over the years, and studies have shown that higher cigarette taxes and prices do curb smoking, especially in young people. In part because they just stopped being able to afford them. So in that sense, are so-called sin taxes - and this obesity tax could be considered a sin tax - a good thing?
Ms. COLEMAN: I agree with Liza on this. I don't think it is a good thing. I think that you're taking away personal responsibility from people. And from the articles that I've read about this, it's only going to be about 15 cents. So I don't think that it's going to make a major - and I only drink diet soda. That's one of the few things I probably do right. But if it goes up 15 cents, I'm still going to drink - I would still drink whatever it is I wanted to drink.
Ms. SABATER: Absolutely.
Ms. COLEMAN: So I agree with Liza on this. We need to look at - I was mentoring a child a few months back, and I was asking her about physical education. Of course, I'm in the Washington, D.C. area schools. And when she - I don't have children. And when she told me that they didn't have any phys ed, I was shocked. I had Phys Ed, you know, all throughout grade school.
Ms. SABATER: And not just once a week either. It was two and three times a week.
Ms. COLEMAN:: Exactly.
Ms. SABATER: And if we were in a team, then you had, you know, two or three more times during the week. We don't - there's so many other ways of addressing this issue. And just to talk about, you know, less smoking among, you know, the younger generations, I mean, they're moving to other kinds of vices, anyway. You know, they're using ecstasy, they're using meth, you know, and, you know, the ever-popular marijuana. So I really don't believe that taxing cigarettes really is going to curb addiction, which is basically, you know, what is at stake here. It's just, you can't tax addiction and expect it to go away.
CHIDEYA: Let me get Charles. Charles, you know, when you think about whether or not this so-called obesity tax on sugary drinks is a sin tax, whether or not it's a public health intervention, we've got two votes that say no way. What's your vote?
Mr. CHARLES ROBINSON (Blogger, Charles Black Politics Blog): Well, I think it does kind of curb this insatiable desire. In other words, we can have it all. And I think part of our society has said that yeah, you can drink anything, do anything you want, and despite the ill effects that come along with it. If you think about it, you know, during our time - I'm assuming all of us are a little bit older than we used to be - that we had an opportunity to not only run off whatever we ate or drank, but we had an opportunity to have somebody to kind of check us when we did things in excess. And I think part of it is is that we are an excessive culture. You know, I think about my own kids. I've got to police them about being online so much. I said look, you can spend about an hour, but you can't spend three hours. And that's part of where our culture is.
CHIDEYA: But in the end, do you think that there are public health interventions that work, that are tax-related or otherwise-related?
Mr. ROBINSON: I think the cigarette thing is a prime example of that. Look, right now I think the average tax on cigarettes are bringing about $3 to $4 dollars, OK? For those people who were kind of like weighing in whether or not they wanted to smoke or not, they looked at it as a financial issue, and that kind of curbed some of their insatiable desire to smoke more often. Obviously, it's an addiction, and it's going to take more than just a financial incentive to change people's habits. But it is the first step into kind of moving people in the right direction.
Ms. COLEMAN: I disagree.
Mr. ROBINSON: OK. Go for it.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. SABATER: I mean, you know, there's the chewing of tobacco also. And, you know, when I used to be a high school teacher, I would find kids chewing it. I was like, what is that, gum? And no, you know, they're chewing tobacco. I mean, there's ways, really, of getting around that. I think that, again, it's about public policy when you're trying to tax, in this particular case, you know, a pattern of consumption, as opposed to really putting money where we need it in New York City in particular, where, you know, we don't have - so many public areas are being taken over by real estate development. You know, money putting into creating more parks is non-existent nowadays. So you know, there needs to be really more of a urban development planning of saying we're going to invest in our cities and in our public areas, so that…
CHIDEYA: Liza, on that note - guys, we have to go to a break. But it's the perfect place. We're going to come back with more of the Bloggers' Roundtable.
(Soundbite of music)
CHIDEYA: I'm Farai Chideya and this is News & Notes. We're back with our Bloggers' Roundtable. And today we've got Kimberly Coleman, who blogs at SistaGirlSpeaksUp.blogspot.com, Charles Robinson of Charles Black Politics Blog and Liza Sabater, publisher of the community blog Culture Kitchen. Welcome back. We could keep talking about soda, but I want to move on to whether or not a certain gentleman is black enough.
Mr. ROBINSON: Oh, please. Not again.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: I hate to even go there, but this is what's coming up. We're talking about Republican Joseph Cao. He defeated Democrat William Jefferson, who is black, in Louisiana earlier this month, and he wants to join the Congressional Black Caucus. He is Vietnamese-American. People are losing their minds.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: Charles, what do you think?
Mr. ROBINSON: Well, you know, this is the proverbial let me throw something in there and see if I can stir things up. Look, if Mr. Cao wants to join the Congressional Black Caucus, have at it. Just remind him that it is a Congressional Black Caucus, and that the issues that they're going to be dealing with are going to be dealing with issues within the African-American community, which actually reach the broader communities. And I think part of this kind of let's see what we can do to stir things up has kind of produced this, what I call, the drive-by white guy, the person who drives by the white neighborhood and says, oh, I can tell you what's going on there.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: Oh, my goodness. Liza, what do you think? I mean, some people are arguing, look, there's a significant number of African-Americans in Cao's district, why shouldn't he be in the CBC just based on that?
Ms. SABATER: You know, I don't see why not. And I mean, we have to contend with, I guess, change in terms of, you know, identity politics being about the identity of the person and not necessarily of the people that you're representing. And, you know, let him sit in. I don't see why they shouldn't allow him in it. Of course, it's just exactly like Robinson was saying that, you know, he needs to understand that this is about - you know, the caucus is about African-American issues, and if he needs, you know, if he needs to broaden it in order to, you know, also apply it to the rest of his constituency, then fine.
But I don't see why it's not, you know, possible for them - for him to be part of it. And actually, I think that there should be more inclusiveness in a lot of these, you know, minority caucuses, where - especially if you have white Congresspeople - congressmen or women - who have a huge population, either African-American or Latino, for example, I think it's really important that they understand, you know, from our point of view, what are the things that we need in order for them to be better representatives of the people.
CHIDEYA: Kimberly, I'm going to switch you to another topic. There's an interesting discussion going on the Black Voices Community board about who should not show up at Barack Obama's inauguration. The blogger's called Black Harlem Now, and her personal list ranges from folks like Carl Rove, who were anti-Obama, to former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, Alan Keyes, you know, and all of the women from the reality show the "Real Housewives of Atlanta."
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: What do you think of the list, and do you have any additions?
Ms. COLEMAN: Yeah. Actually, I did have an addition. I had a few additions. I had a feeling you were going to ask me that question. I agree with all those aforementioned. I had Mike Tyson, Amy Winehouse, any of the women from "Flavor of Love," "Chance of Love" and "A Real Chance Of Love," or whatever it's called. And a few other people who I know from back home in Chicago.
(Soundbite of laughter)
CHIDEYA: Oh, that's so wrong. Charles, what about you?
Mr. ROBINSON: I was going to say the girls next door. Hugh Heffner's girlfriends. God, please don't invite those girls in. But no, you know, it's a lot of fun to look at it. I thought the Flavor Flav one, and then, of course, to add my favorite, "I Love New York," you know, to that list is kind of like, you know, what do you say when you get there? Oh, I'm just glad to be here?
CHIDEYA: And what would they wear? Liza.
Mr. ROBINSON: Pretty much nothing. But that's a whole other issue.
Ms. SABATER: You know, I actually wrote about Flavor Flav once, that if, you know, MLK were alive, he would bust his cap. I mean, he just would tear on the guy. I couldn't talk about…
Mr. ROBINSON: But he's popular. I'm always amazed how popular he is.
Ms. COLEMAN: But he's like he took, you know - I mean, in Public Enemy, he was like a commentary about the minstrel, you know, culture. But now he's a - he is one, you know.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. COLEMAN: We don't need any minstrels.
Ms. SABATER: As Don King would say, only in America.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. ROBINSON: Well, that would be Don King then. Would you add Don King to the list?
Ms. SABATER: Well, I think he would be, he's a Republican.
Mr. ROBINSON: I think Don is coming, let me just tell you that.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. SABATER: Oh, he's probably is giving a party. He's probably giving a party.
CHIDEYA: Well, guys, are any of you going? Just quickly.
Mr. ROBINSON: Yes, I'm going. I'm going to be there.
Ms. COLEMAN: I haven't decided yet. I mean, I don't know, two million people in the same place. That kind of makes me nervous. And - but at the same time, you know - I mean, it would be great to be able. But there's no place to stay. There's no - it's going to be mayhem.
Mr. ROBINSON: I got a - look, I got a sofa. You can crash on a sofa.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. SABATER: Because I live here, I will be here, and I will be covering it for a radio station. So I'm excited about that.
Ms. COLEMAN: Oh, awesome.
CHIDEYA: All right. Well, I just want to wish you guys Happy Holidays!
Ms. COLEMAN: Happy Holidays!
Mr. ROBINSON: Happy Holidays!
Ms. SABATER: Thank you. You too.
CHIDEYA: All right, take care. We were talking with Kimberly Coleman, who blogs at SistaGirlSpeaksUp.blogspot.com, she joined us from NPR headquarters in Washington, D.C, Charles Robinson of Charles Black Politics blog, he joined us from the studios of WEAA in Baltimore, Maryland, and Liza Sabater, publisher of the community blog Culture Kitchen, she joined us from NPR's studios in New York.
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