In another win for Trump, an appeals court rules federal worker firings can proceed
AILSA CHANG, HOST:
The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has, for now, cleared the way for the Trump administration to fire, yet again, tens of thousands of federal employees who've only just been reinstated. This ruling comes a day after the Supreme Court issued a similar decision. NPR's Andrea Hsu has been following all of this and joins us now. Hi, Andrea.
ANDREA HSU, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: Hi. OK, so help us understand this. Like, what do these two new rulings mean, exactly?
HSU: Yeah. Well, this is a really big win for the Trump administration. You'll remember, back in February, the administration had directed agencies to fire their probationary employees - so these are typically people in their first or second year on the job - but also included people promoted into new roles. And this was all part of President Trump's broad plan to dramatically downsize the federal workforce. But when tens of thousands of probationary employees started getting termination notices all within days of each other, there was an outcry. And within a week of the firings, one lawsuit was filed, and then a couple weeks later, another lawsuit was filed.
CHANG: And who brought these lawsuits, exactly?
HSU: Yeah. So they were not brought by federal employees themselves because federal employees must first go through this internal process if they want to challenge personnel actions by the government. So instead, these lawsuits were brought by groups that say they were harmed by these firings. The first lawsuit was brought by several labor organizations and some civic organizations, like a veterans group, a parks group and the Small Business Association. And the second lawsuit was brought by 19 states and the District of Columbia, and they argued that they had not been given proper notice of these mass layoffs as required by law, and so they, too, were suffering harm, they said.
CHANG: And were those arguments persuasive to the judges who first heard the cases?
HSU: Yeah, at least in part. You know, the first case was filed in federal court in San Francisco, and the judge there initially set aside the labor unions' claims but said the civic organizations did have a good case, and he ordered six federal agencies to bring their probationary employees back to work. And that included the VA, the Defense Department, the Treasury Department and others.
And now, in the states' case, well, that was brought in federal court in Baltimore, and the judge there initially ordered probationary employees at close to 20 agencies reinstated nationwide. But he later narrowed that to just those employees who live or work in the states that had sued.
CHANG: OK. But now higher courts have disagreed, right?
HSU: Yes. The Supreme Court said in the San Francisco case that those civic organizations didn't have standing to bring their case in federal court. And in the states' case, the 4th Circuit said the Trump administration was probably right in arguing that the court lacked jurisdiction to hear the case. In both instances, though, the higher courts did not come to any conclusion about whether the firings themselves were unlawful, so that still needs to play out in the lower courts.
CHANG: OK, then what does all of this mean for workers who've been reinstated?
HSU: Well, Ailsa, it's not entirely clear. The vast majority of them had been put back on payroll as a result of those lower court orders. A lot of people were placed on administrative leave, so they weren't actually working. But there are probably thousands who have been issued new badges and gotten their computers back, and so it's unclear if and when agencies are going to fire them again.
CHANG: And aren't federal agencies already rolling out plans for mass layoffs?
HSU: Yeah, absolutely. We've been hearing about those plans at several agencies, including Health and Human Services and the IRS. And ahead of these layoffs, lots of agencies are still trying to get people to leave voluntarily. A number of them have given employees a second chance to resign now in exchange for pay and benefits through September, and they're also offering early retirement packages. So, you know, if a lot of older, more tenured workers end up leaving the government, these agencies may need these probationary workers. They may not want to just, you know, hastily fire them again just because a court says they can.
CHANG: To be continued - that is NPR's Andrea Hsu. Thank you so much, Andrea.
HSU: Thanks, Ailsa.
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